So you’ve always been wondering, (I’m sure you have) when it comes to criminal procedure when does a person’s individual rights, under the Constitution, “attach” to a situation. . . haven’t you?
In an earlier Part One, (view Part One here), I talked about how cops try to help themselves in the future, and prosecutors as well, by the way police reports are written. It’s a good guy/bad guy set up, which makes it easier to get a conviction.
Trust me, I have seen it happen. And even when a defendant has eloquent and thorough defense counsel, and some facts in his or her favor, juries want to see “justice” for the alleged victim, which is why prosecutors have such a high rate of success. “ . . . . About 90 percent of the cases end with a plea bargain, and of those cases going to trial, about 90 percent end in a guilty verdict,” says a former U.S. attorney. (sorry -paywall, Dallas news). Perhaps that is grist for another article.
Anyhow, the thing is, you do have rights under the constitution, which say that you’re not required to provide evidence against yourself, or “self-incriminate.”
The idea comes from the Fifth Amendment, that tells us “no person . . . shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself,” among other protections for persons accused of a crime.
Simply put, a person can’t be compelled (forced, coerced, etc) to give evidence against him or herself. The problem having been that in earlier times, forced confessions were common, in fact, they could have been the rule rather than the exception. I guess that the idea being that confession is good for the soul. . . so forcing a confession would mean you were helping someone get closer to his or her Maker.
This idea also works in conjunction with the Sixth Amendment, which states that a defendant also can “have the Assistance of Counsel for his [or her] defense.”
To illustrate the Fifth Amendment: Let’s go back to our earlier scenario from Part 1, where a police officer calls someone to “assist him” in inquiries about an assault. Police Officer tells Joe Defendant, “Well, Mr. Johnson said you went after Tom with a carving knife.”
Thoughts are racing through Joe Defendant’s mind, and at this point he should realize he has options. Option 1: invoke the Fifth. Option 2: invoke the Sixth. Option 3: get the whole thing off his chest, because it is bugging him all night long.
In other words, the idea that Joe’s rights are at issue is correct! They are at issue immediately! And Joe may invoke his rights as soon as he thinks it is appropriate. So let’s hope Joe goes with Option 1, or Option 2.
One way to say this is “I’m not sure officer, are you accusing me of a crime? I might talk to you, but only once my lawyer is with me.”
To illustrate the Sixth amendment: Once Joe Defendant says “I might talk to you, but only once my lawyer is with me,” he is also invoking that he has the right to an attorney.
Anecdotally I have seen this actually work for a client. I had been representing the client in a divorce. The wife moved out a few months after filing for divorce, then decided to charge my client with the crime of non-consensual sex. First, she got a personal protection order, then she called the cops, and “reported” the incident. Cops called the client – whose best friend, Ron, is a defense attorney (and my pal from law school). Client has Ron call the cops back for him. The gist of that phone call was “we have nothing to say at this time.” I call the client and tell him “listen to Ron! He’s right!” No charges were issued.
But this is why, when officers question someone, the legal requirement is that they get a consent signed that Joe Defendant is aware of, and voluntarily waives, his Miranda rights – to remain silent, the right to an attorney, and that whatever testimony he gives may be used against him.
I may be preaching to the choir here, but Joe’s right attach as soon as he thinks 1. anything he says may be used in proceedings against him or 2. he is being interrogated in custody (aka “custodial interrogation.”)
Where does custodial interrogation occur? Wherever police are present, is my answer. Street scene where a brawl has taken place? Police are present? Police are talking to witnesses (or potential suspects)? Even if a person is not in a squad car, handcuffs, or police department interview room, then the police may be interrogating him or her.
If the person does not feel “free to leave” the scene, then interrogation may be taking place, and rights to counsel, to silence, etc. can be asserted.
“Am I free to go?”
“Am I being detained?”
“Would you liketo be detained?”
*waggles eyebrows*
How are you, Riven?
I’m ok. Busy at work in the thick of tax season, and kind of sad everywhere else. Miss my dad. He might have appreciated this article; he was coming around on the thin blue line.
I’m very sorry for your loss. Hang in there.
“Am I being retained?”
/detainee’s lawyer
*narrows gaze*
Why would you want a lawyer here? This will go so much smoother just between us. You want to help us figure out the truth, right?
What I want is my lawyer.
No hablo Ingles until I get a lawyer?
EVERY FUCKING LAW & ORDER EPISODE
And the bad guys lawyer up with the cops giving a snide remark about lawyering up. That leads me, the viewer, to believe that only bad guys want lawyers.
The cops have lawyers in every episode. Ergo, the cops are the villains of the show.
YES! For the longest time, I believed that completely. “Oh, he wants a lawyer – he obviously did it!” And thus I never would have refused to speak to police without a lawyer had I ever had the circumstance.
My eyes were finally opened a few years back and now I know to never speak to a cop without a lawyer.
All lawyers are slimy scumbags, except the lawyers who represent the State. Those are noble, hardworking, underpaid heroes. And some PDs, I guess, but only the PDs who help keep their clearly innocent minority defendants from being railroaded by racist, corrupt police.
If the people that represent the state didn’t have such horrible records of fucking over people just so they can pad their resumes and run for some cushy elected position in the future, I wouldn’t need to retain a lawyer of my own to avoid asshatery.
You want to help us figure out the truth, right?
You are here to gather evidence to get a conviction. Truth has little to do with it.
I have used the ideas in Elspeth’s previous article to smarten up people about what to do when hospital surveyors or third party auditors come calling. “They aren’t here to find out what actually happened. They are here to gather evidence against us. What do you think gets them recognized? Nothing to see here, or I caught them doing something wrong?”
People generally get it once its explained like that.
I’ve sent this to several people, and it’s seemed to help as well.
/not a lawyer
So what do you do with the asshole cop who contradicts himself by saying words to the effect of “You’re not being detained but you’re not free to go?” Especially in a manner which does not result in firearms discharging in the vicinicty of the incident.
“If you want to walk away, walk away. But we’ll have to put you in cuffs if you do.”
“You’re free to go, and we’re free to show up at your work tomorrow and haul you off in front of your boss.”
You don’t ask if you’re being detained. You ask if you are free to leave (and thus not have to interact with them).
If they don’t affirmatively say you can leave, you’re being detained.
Then you don’t leave, and you say as little as possible until he says you can.
So do rights attach when being questioned by a law enforcement officer or by any government representative when there is potential jeopardy?
The rights attach every moment you are drawing breath.
Bingo. Nothing the cops do, or don’t do, affects what rights you have.
My question was directed toward government functionaries who aren’t cops.
Same answer. Now, your rights may be violated by someone who is conducting an “administrative” search or somesuch with the blessing of the courts, but that doesn’t mean your rights aren’t violated.
Just that you can’t do anything about it.
I understood that completely. Not sure what beyond vital statistics (name, dob, present mailing address) any government functionary needs you to volunteer without a lawyer present.
Admit the sins that Goody Putnam alleges against you. Admit that you consorted with the devil and danced by his infernal fire.
“I plead the First.”
Sounds like someone’s been talking to RUSSIANS?!
T: …tus testiculos.
E: My, um, ah yes, those, yes…
T: …sobre un fuego grande.
E: …over a large…
T: Fuego, fuego. (makes fire motion with his hands, then blows on the tips of his fingers)
E: Oh, fire, fire. Ah good, so let’s recap. Um…if I admit that I’m in love–
T: (interjects) No! No! (rolls onto his back)
E: Sorry — head-over-heels in love — (T makes various motions to indicate each thing) with Satan and all his little wizards, then you will remove my testicles with a blunt instrument–
T: Una polan~a, una polan~a.
E: …resembling some kind of gardening tool but we can’t quite… Um, and roast them over a large fire.
T: Si’, si’.
E: Whereas if I don’t admit that I’m in love with Satan and…and…all his… his little wizards, (T again is making appropriate gestures for each item)
you will hold me upside down in a vat of warm marmalade.
T: (holds his hands out, expecting more) …*y*…
E: *And* remove my testicles with a blunt…oh I see. Well, well, in that case, I love Satan.
T: (excited) Ohh ho ho! (produces instrument)
E: Oh, it’s a *scythe*…
“I wish to make it quite clear that I am prepared to tell you absolutely anything.”
“I want copies of all your financial records for the past two years.”
“I want to see a copy of the statute and regulations that require me to give them to you.”
I have terminated a number of conversations with regulatory agencies by asking this question. They have a bad habit of making demands they aren’t authorized to make.
These are the only questions that should be on the census.
England has a nice take on it:
“You do not have to say anything unless you wish to do so, but I must warn you that if you fail to mention any fact which you rely on in your defence in court, your failure to take this opportunity to mention it may be treated in court as supporting any relevant evidence against you. If you do wish to say anything, what you say may be given in evidence.”
You misspelled Airstrip One.
OT: Cishetero disadvantage Even in the freaking womb?
Simple fix: post-natal abortion for one and a warm bassinet for the other.
Yes, that’s how I describe correlations too. “Effect”.
Science journalists, ladies and gentlemen.
Louisiana State Constitution: If you are being questioned by the police, even if you are not a suspect in a crime, you have a right to counsel, counsel being friends, family or attorney.
Never. Talk. To. The. Cops.
This is why I have Swiss on speed dial.
“DON’T SAY ANYTHING! Hand the phone to to the cops… My client has nothing to say to you. Give him the incident number from the report, and I will look it over at my convenience. He consents to nothing else except getting his property back from you and leaving.”
Under the 13th Amendment that little girl is NOT his property.
I’m having to deal with a lot of Louisiana Law enforcement recently, what a shit show. Thank god for good lawyers.
“…what a shit show…”
Same as everywhere else.
*My father was recently talking to a judge in Texas. He said that everywhere else he had been when he mentioned LA lawyers/judges etc would just laugh, but that after being everywhere else he preferred the LA system. The TX judge pulled his car keys out of his pocket and dangled them. He said “come hop in my car. I will drive you back to LA right now.”
The devil you know….
No. I’ve never been anywhere else that I’ve first hand seen a walking talking piece of shit that owns a sheriffs department. Seriously, I used to see shit like that in movies and scoff. This isn’t even in a rural area either.
Having a Sheriffs deputy say things like “That’s not how we do things here.” or “You’re not from around here are you?”
“One more word out of you and you’re going to jail.”
In LA the sheriff is one step below God. The sheriff is the chief law enforcement officer and tax collector bar none. Period. It is an elected office.
We have had some bad ones, but mostly not. What parish are you talking about?
I don’t think most people realize that when the phrase “tax collector” is used in the Bible, it generally means “the police.”
The Romans were sorta libertarians in that they didn’t really care what the Jews did to each other – as long as the taxes got paid and they didn’t revolt.
Jefferson
ouch. I have heard some bad things about that place.
That is wise advice. Being helpful, especially when you are innocent, is a surefire way to get yourself in a world of trouble. Saw it happen to too many people. I have told my son that if he ever is picked up, he demands his phone call, calls me, and says nothing at all until i show up with a lawyer. If they ever take me in for anything, I will immediately demand a lawyer and not even bother to interact with them. I am safer paying the lawyer to get me out quick, than I am paying lawyers in perpetuity because I was helpful and now they want to buttfuck me for that.
Fuck, the time I got picked up for my OVI (Ohio’s DUI), the cops really didn’t like that I wouldn’t name the bar I was at, nor give them names of people who might be there, nor call someone who was with me to pick me up. I spent the night in jail, and got bailed out in the morning. The lawyer I hired got me a copy of the police report, which mentioned that I was both “Polite and courteous” while “being unhelpful and belligerent”.
I was both “Polite and courteous” while “being unhelpful and belligerent”.
* thunderous applause *
“Arrestee injured three officers’ knuckles with his face while attempting to escape restraints.”
Nope. No injuries (I was in the suburbs). Did my weekend retreat, paid my fine, dealt with my 6 month suspended license. Had a driver, or walked to bars after that. Now, I love the fact that there’s Lyft and Uber to get me to and from the many fine breweries and bars in the Cleveland area (cabs weren’t really a thing here and still aren’t).
>I was both “Polite and courteous” while “being unhelpful and belligerent”.
I thought you were from Beleveland, not the center of Canada.
The detective that handled our recent burglary explained to me that a significant portion of people he arrests just plain confess, some to crimes that they aren’t even under suspicion for.
He said it was usually an ego thing. They wanted to brag about their accomplishments so he would feign amazement at how a particular crime was pulled off in order to get them going.
I have a good friend who used to be a detective in a small-ish town. He’s had the same experience. He’s also told me that in most cases, it’s pretty obvious who was guilty. There’s a robbery and they have the guy on camera, someone was shot and they have multiple witnesses to a fight and the suspect’s gun, stuff like that. He laughs at those Law & Order shows because they all rely heavily on DNA evidence, but in real life they hardly ever need to use it.
Much (maybe most, but maybe not) crime is self-help justice administered by people who can’t or won’t rely on legitimate authority to provide justice. If you think you didn’t do anything wrong because you beat the shit out of someone who swore at your sister because your sister cheated on his brother, etc.
There are a shocking number (to me) of people who go to the police and confess right away after administering that self-help justice.
My alma mater disappoints me:
Coates gets a mention where Thoreau does not, gah.
“Dissent,” of course, being a carefully circumscribed concept. Don’t think you can dissent from just anything, mister.
“And try not to be critical on your critical thinking. . . That’s a micro aggression. Better yet, we’ll tell you what to write down. “
I was actually in the CTY summer camp a couple times when I was a kid. Kind of a weird program, to be honest, but it was fun. I mean, i didn’t do the BS humanities stuff. I took an aerospace engineering camp and a forensic science one. Interesting stuff
So what you are saying is never talk to the cops.
That’s an excellent video!
That video is what opened my eyes to the truth about police interviews.
I can’t remember if he makes this point, but when it comes up with my students I ask them, “why would the cops be talking to you unless they already suspect you? ANYTHING you say will be part of their confirmation bias.”
I bought his book. It’s a solid little read, and basically boils down to: Don’t talk to the police, invoke the 6th amendment not the 5th because the Supreme Court has decided the 5th doesn’t mean what the 5th means.
Always loved that video. Thanks for the reminder to make sure my kids have all seen it.
This is a great article, and a good series. My father was a public defender and is now a regular defense attorney, so i’ve been hearing these types of stories my whole life. I think it’s very important to get this information out there. People need to not only know their rights, but understand what they mean and how to put them into practice in real-world situations. Thank you for writing this piece.
Thank you!
“I plead the fifth (slaps the table twice), I plead the fifth (slaps the table twice). FIVE! 1, 2, 3, 4, FIFTTTTTTTHHHHHHH!!!!! You can say anything, FIFTH! You can ask me a question, FIFTH!”
/Tron Carter
Pleading the fifth, I am
Pleading the fifth, I am I am
I am Sam
ducks in
Glib bracket: http://glib.mayhem.cbssports.com/e/7e8393fea35ba29ec9c72c50b56c2dc4?ttag=BPM19_cpy_invite_new
14 of us so far, free, just for funsies and bragging rights
Privacy: go to the header, pick options, set your nom de guerre and hide your email address, enjoy
ducks out
I hope to erase the memory of last year’s bracket challenge.
I am not doing a bracket this year. I think I’d wind up with UNC and fuck dook for the final. First time since Roy’s Kansas team but UNC to go to the final against fuck dook that there’s a genuine chance at that happening. My god, the hype would be off the charts and I’m sure CBS would cream their collective pants to have that. But it might be the only thing that could end the rivalry.
And I don’t want to see the rivalry end. No matter what, that’d be a trump card. And as much as I’d love to rub their smug dookie faces in losing on the national stage, I might stroke out watching it happen. And I don’t need that.
OT: For months now, I’ve been trying to get a client’s IT department to enable file transfers via VNC. All they have to do is go out to the computer and click a fucking check box, but can they do it? No! Instead I get told helpful tips like ‘Log into the computer using the IP address and not the computer’s name.’ Never mind that I’ve never had the computer’s name, just the IP address. That they game me.
I know there are a lot of IT guys here, just assume you’re exempt from this: I’m so fucking tired of the combination of smug condescension combined with laziness and ineptitude that so many IT guys have. Like somehow having read more lifehacks on Buzzfeed than anyone else means you’re super smart and know where more about computers than anyone else could ever hope to. I’m sure there are some good ones out there, but I sure as fuck have never worked with one.
Do you have a ticket number? I’m not allowed to change anything by user request without one… officially.
Somehow I’ve mostly managed to avoid ticket hell.
I have had IT guys wipe hard drives without mentioning. I’ve had them break computers that were working just fine. I’ve had them reinstall Windows which has failed to fix my problem and left me with half a day of downloading all of the tools I use. I’ve had them tell me to do shit I’ve already painstakingly documented as having done. I’ve had them tell me they don’t know how to fix something after I’ve told them how to fix it (but couldn’t because access privileges).
But never ticket hell.
Oh you have Marvin working in your IT dept now? Marvin never met a computer problem that couldn’t be solved with a could wipe and fresh install.
This is the IT version of saying “I don’t know”. It’s also the IT version of bleeding a patient to balance their humours.
You work with George? Are you still havening the problems?
Well, I know what I’m doing instead of working this afternoon.
LOL
I must have been lucky cuz I’ve never worked with anyone that brain-dead. Hell, even our Filipino staff spoke gooder English.
I just noticed: Why do their tickets have both urgency and priority? Is it a major pain point for them that they had a lot of low priority, high urgency, tasks that other ticketing software just couldn’t handle?
The sad thing is that I have… and both were born in the US. One in California, the other in the Philly region. We got a request to install the comtability tack once. We had ‘agers cannot not login’ several times, and worse.
One of those people was an intern who got hired due to a miscommunication with the person putting through the offer paperwork. He had the same first name as someone who was good at his job. He then slacked his way through below minimal effort for over 4 years. He used to have the highest level of short abandon calls for the entire service desk, even the field employees knew he was a moron.
hate_speech: Now it’s generally referred to as Impact and Urgency (which then creates a priority). Impact is how many people are having the issue, Urgency is how quickly it needs to be dealt with. Examples would be one agent can’t log into the phone system, low Impact, high Urgency. Full office can’t access their voice mail: medium impact, medium Urgency. Remote office can’t log into their phones: medium Impact, high Urgency. It helps to see what needs to be taken care of first, it also impacts SLA’s and other service desk metrics.
And for me, I’d take care of the Remote office first, then the one agent (depending on the error message, since it’s probably a quick fix), then start dealing with the VM issue.
Christ, is that Vantive? That looks like Vantive.
(time passes…)
Worse(?), Remedy. My limited experience with BMC Software will forever make me run far away from anything they offer.
Neph: Honest question: Why not just cut out the middle man and assign a priority?
We use remedy. Ugh.
It has the urgency/impact Neph mentioned.
We mark almost everything medium on both, standard tickets are a 3 priority. A 1 means I get to spend all night on the phone with overseas.
hate_speech: It’s bad enough the company I work for now allows the people calling in the ticket set the urgency and impact (basically the priority). This means that we get P1 or P2 (highest priority, must be worked on a live call until the issue is restored) calls for things like VM PIN resets, single phone configurations, and one agent having issues logging in. Theoretically, the urgency and impact prevent things like that, or at least let you “coach” the people who consistently overstate the impact and urgency of their issues.
At my company all P1/P2 incidents also attract extra scrutiny from the VP’s and up, and there’s several calls a week to go over all P1/P2 incidents to determine what happened, and how to prevent it from happening in the future.
And currently on Service Now, I’ve worked on Service Now before (another company’s implementation), ITSM, Helpstar, and SupportLogix.
/shakes some BNC adorned cables at kids on his lawn
there’s several calls a week to go over all P1/P2 incidents to determine what happened, and how to prevent it from happening in the future
“What happened was everyone miscategorized their ticket. I suggest that, in the future, that we start our progressive disciplinary action when somebody does that. The first time, you get asked nicely. The second time, you get a warning. The third time, you get fired.”
That’s the problem, everybody knows you have to game the system if you want to get anyone’s attention.
My suggestion would be introduce 12 more categories that go into the priority recipe, all on different tabs of the form, and have them all default to low. Now every time you get a ticket you know the person is actually having a high priority problem.
Downside is your ticket count will drop to near zero and half the department will be made redundant.
RC Dean: Not all of them. The company I work for does global support, and there are usually a handful of legitimate P1/P2 issues a day. Thankfully, I’m in a role where my time is dedicated to one customer (who did have a P2 issue on Sunday – it was self inflicted). I’ve never been even invited to these meetings, but I have to make sure that any P1/P2 issues I get are fully documented, and populated (and updated every hour). If too many start coming in, we bring it up on our weekly meetings with the client (where we go over their P1/P2’s for the week).
hate_speech: There’s the rub, if you e-mail in a ticket (or create it manually), highest it can be is a P3. If it’s a P1/P2, you need to call it in, and you need to stay on the line while they get an engineer, and then you need to join the conference call, and you have to be tied up while the issue gets resolved. If you drop off the call, or can’t join the bridge, it gets dropped back down to a P3. Now, this has caused some delays when people put in a legitimate P2 issue manually, and trusted us to get on it quickly (we did, but issue was caused by a change outside of our scope of support).
Trust me, they can be worse dealing with other IT departments then with users.
“Why would we tell you about that firewall change we put in place Friday night? It shouldn’t have had any impact.”
/said after taking down a call center by forbidding their phones to access the Call Manager servers
I see we share a network group.
Well if my thesis holds true, I’d expect it to be roughly twice as bad. Everybody trying to out smug each other and nobody actually doing useful work. From down the hall it would sound like static, or the susurration of a thousand seagulls, but as you got closer, you would start to hear distinctly: “Actually…”
Think less aspies online and more cliques saying “the problem isn’t with our stuff, try [other group]”
There are those of us in the realm of IT that are aware we’re support staff. My role is to make sure that every other department can do their job. Most of them don’t understand what I need to do to get it to work (although I really wish they would at least learn the bare minimum they need to tell me to get it to work), same as I don’t understand the entire realm of their job. Ideally, what I do should be invisible, and painless.
It annoys me that more IT people don’t realize that except for very rare companies (like the one I work for), we’re a cost, not a source of income. Of course, this could also all be because the company I work for charges the company I support for my time to be directed towards their issues (and very little else). So far this client has been very happy with the way I’ve dealt with all of the points of contact, and various managers and leads from the customer have expressed this appreciation to the Account Manager for my company (who thankfully passes it along to my boss).
My favorite meeting is trying to explain to the customer that while it is technically possible to do what they want, it needs to be funded. There’s a limit to how much we can do to with nothing. The customers who don’t think any money should be allocated to achieving their objectives are the same ones who complain the most about poor performance of applications. But I can’t shout “What do you expect from trying to run everything on ten year old hardware using software that’s old enough to drink?” Then we get to the point where the only option is an upgrade that costs three arms and five legs because everything has to be converted manually past multiple intervening versions.
Mine was always sitting with the call center managers, and asking questions that would point out how terrible their ideas were: “Wait, you want it to dump people to VM if they hold for 30 minutes? Is that going to help those customers get their issue answered faster, or will they call back into the queue angrier?”
“Ok, you want to add a Spanish language option for the call flow when you have Spanish speaking agents staffed. How many Spanish speaking agents do you have?”
“One or two.”
“…So you want to spend the money to get a translator to update go through all of the prompts, and record all of them in Spanish, for one or two agents?”
“Yes, and if they hold for more then 5 minutes, can we just send them to an English speaking agent?”
“…We can do that, is there a benefit to doing this?”
“We’ll hire more Spanish speaking agents this way.”
/Four years later, they have not hired any more Spanish speaking agents
When one of the startups I worked for got bought by one of our clients, my life became complete hell because my time was no longer “valuable”.
When they were a client, I could shut down all their dumb ideas by telling them that “Sure, I can do that and it will be about 40 hours of work. Multiply that by $175/hr…” and they would get sulky and say “Well, not for that”
Once we were bought my hourly rate became $0/hr. Flaming Logos for everyone! Lots of color changes. Skies the limit. All the previous dumb ideas came flooding back.
I finally “fixed” the problem by getting the CEO to put down a fatwa that said if anyone wanted my time, they had to get approval from Ross. Ross was an old guy who was working just to have something to do. Loved, loved, loved talking about anything at all. LOVED meetings.
This worked great because it turns out that the other people would rather pay $$$ than talk to Ross. All I had to do to spike a dumb idea was say, “Well sure I could do this, but we better schedule a meeting with Ross to talk about this…” Same sulky stare.
I will readily admit that a lot of my frustration comes from knowing a lot about computers, but IT staff treating me like I don’t know anything about computers. In fairness, most of the people they interact with are like that. In unfairness, I think most of them are barely past the threshold of also being in that category.
I also resent them for installing malware masquerading as security on my computers even though I know that’s mostly not their fault.
Don’t worry, IT folks also treat each other like the other doesn’t know a lot about computers. There have been times I’ve been tempted to remind people, “I used to do your job.”
rant on:
“I used to do your job” is, hands down, the most condescending bullshit I’ve ever gotten from a single individual. I managed not to tell him the fact he had the title of “systems engineer” at one point doesn’t mean he knows jack shit about what that involves at this company, but it was tempting.
The same smug douche promptly caused a huge data loss a few months later, when screwed up the SAN storage he “needed” admin rights to.
No great surprise he was part of the RIF that occurred a few months later.
“I used to do your job”
“I guess you couldn’t handle it and had to find something else? Don’t feel bad, not everyone can do what I do.”
In this case, it was literal. I did the knowledge transfer and documentation for their group during consolidation. The role was taken away from me and moved over there because the new siloing called for it. It’s funny how one day they’d call and ask me to reset the root password on the box they’re supposed to be administering, then question my understanding of it on the next. If it were a case of “Oh, we changed that because of X” that’s one thing. But it’s only been that in cases of me putting in a request using the wrong form. (They ‘announced’ the change in procedure on an intranet site you have to log into that rarely has any relevence so no one visits)
Oh well, Mister Dean, I guess you won’t be needing that refresher knowledge transfer.
Good luck.
Mr. “I used to do your job” is asking for my help, not the other way around.
I worked in-house IT and we got that message loud and clear. Don’t believe all the stereotypes, folks – there are lots of good teams out there.
I’m sure there are. I eagerly await the day where I get to work with one of those instead of the dickheads I always seem to get.
Have you considered there’s a reason you’re always getting dickheads? :-p
I already told you: Because most corporate IT guys are dickheads. Jeez, it’s like you’re not even listening.
Everyone knows that the rules are:
1) Smelliest sandals and raggediest ponytail are the best linux admins
2) tightest hipster jeans are the best UX/Web designer
3) fattest are the best DBA
4) thickest glasses are the best embedded engineers
1) Smelliest sandals and raggediest ponytail are the best linux admins
That hasn’t been the case in a long time.
Yeah, I’d say scruffiest beard was the usual tell.
+1 Nedry
It’s because they can see the chips better!
And I’m in a niche so small that there really aren’t any stereotypes about it (that I’m aware of).
In a previous life, one of my tasks was to install IoT gear in quick serve restaurants. At that point in time, cellular costs were prohibitive, so the gateway would be a wired connection.
This meant that you would have to work with some local guy who managed the network for 10-15 McDonald’s. Usually it was no problem, they would have DHCP and you could connect up pretty easily, you just had to schedule some time to plug into the network on site.
Every 15th person though would be some jackass who was convinced that they were NSA material and had set up insanely stupid network rules, filters, whitelists, etc. You’d have to beg them to let you connect the gateway. Then they would fuck up their configuration and nothing would work. At that point, they’d loudly tell the poor guy who owned the store that your gateway was a piece of shit. Then you’d get into some stupid dick measuring contest that would always end with them being proven wrong about some rule.
That sounds like hell on earth. I bet it makes for good reading though!
It depends. IME, there are 1-4 guys who really know all the shit, and they’re busy as fuck and important enough that unless a VP or higher is involved, are doing the next thing on a list 1000 items deep that never gets below 990. Most of the other guys are either expert in some tiny little important thing (active directory or creating disk images) and don’t know or care about anything else — but still can’t be fired because then the busy guy would have even more work. And then there are the help-desk rats who get promoted to level two (phone support) who probably couldn’t pass the basic admin competency exams, and don’t even know how to google your problem.
In response to the video what Rebel posted, isn’t it dicey to invoke the 5th amendment? I think the guy outlines how invocation of the 5th can be used against you in some circumstances, or if you don’t say the magical constitutional incantation properly (I’m pretty sure there’s no somatic or material components).
Do you even need to say anything specific? Either silence, or “I’m not saying anything until I talk to my lawyer” would both seem to be valid exercises of the 5th (as written, of course).
I believe this is an invocation of the 6th.
I don’t remember all of the details, but the gist of his book (and he gives a talk on this that’s on youtube somewhere), is that the 5th amendment can be invoked in a way that doesn’t actually mean it was invoked and your silence, or the invocation itself, can be used against you. Basically, his advice is invoke the 6th, then have the lawyer cast the 5th Amendment invocation to keep you from testifying against yourself.
Meh, it’s always dicey to do anything. The least you can do is not screw yourself by runnin’ your yapper.
Sorry, I forgot to mention his advice was to immediately invoke the 6th and have your lawyer invoke the 5th for you.
“OK, you can have a lawyer – while we wait for them to arrive, let us chat…”
5th first, 6th next.
He disagrees, but I’m in no position to defend his arguments. Obviously you aren’t supposed to talk to them about anything until council arrives. His argument is something to the effect that relatively recent rulings by the Supreme Court make invoking the 5th amendment not straightforward as you would expect. If I wasn’t at work I would try to dig up the video I watched.
I think it’s good advice. Because you aren’t refusing to talk, but simply asking them to wait until your lawyer arrives.
It’s more than just advice though. You can actually shoot yourself in the foot invoking the 5th. He gives examples in the book. I can’t be sure because I’m at work, but I think this is the video where he expounds on why you invoke the 6th and not the 5th:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FENubmZGj8
Basically the 6th hasn’t been fucked with yet.
Basically the 6th hasn’t been fucked with yet.
Because its the one that makes lawyers money.
*Raises finger to make a point*
*Puts finger back down*
…Huh…
*Puts finger in nose*
He doesn’t get into details, but he implies it’s what I said. There are ways that refusing to talk (invoking the fifth) can now be used against you – but if you ask for a lawyer, you aren’t refusing to talk.
I think I misread your earlier post.
Nothing to see here, move along
*Waves blaster pistol menacingly*
It’d be dicey to do anything. They are trigger-happy animals looking for an escalation. My only experiences in interacting with police have involved them immediately displaying contempt and disrespect towards me while I try to bite my tongue (I have a bit of a mouth, especially when driven to it) in order to avoid confrontation. Those have only been for suspicion of (parking lot intimacy) or observed (speeding) victim-less crimes. Luckily I have only ever gotten ticketed and nothing else happened. But they really should show a bit of respect considering I pay their salary.
You expect the castle guard to respect the serf?
See my other comment to Scruffy about how you should invoke the 6th.
Also, parking lot intimacy and speeding aren’t victimless crimes. The state is the victim! Pay up!
Ugh. Weirdos into Parking Lots are worse than Furries.
I just keep backing into the compact spots over and over until the police arrive
You should have seen the reaction of the guy that pulled me over and asked me if I knew why I was pulled over when I answered with “You pulled me over because the people running this town piss away money and are using you as a means to harass unknowing and unsuspecting citizens for new funds”….
The girl next to me almost had a heart attack. So after waiting for 30 mins for them to dig into my history in the hopes of finding a way to screw me over, I ended up with a ticket for not wearing my seatbelt. Told the officer I would be seeing him in court.
Send in the ticket pleading not guilty and it got dismissed. They figured the $94 they would get with my guilty charge would not help since I had already on a couple of other occasions gone to court for minor fines (spend good money to make sure the money they did collect was a fraction of their cost) just to force the town to shell out big bucks for trying to fleece me a couple of decades ago. I could afford it, and while I don’t get in trouble with these people a lot, it has paid off as they have basically accepted my not guilty response every time I had a ticket for whatever reason.
But they really should show a bit of respect considering I pay their salary.
I really don’t see why the muscle for a protection racket would show respect for its victims.
The difference between a cop and a body guard is that you’re not the cop’s client.
You go, girl!
^captive audience^
But, yes. Another great article from EF. Very good advice if any of us find ourselves on the wrong side of Johnny Law.
Like you could have said anything otherwise and survived!
Lucky for you she did an awesome job, but I see what you are doing there…
I had an interesting encounter with a Galveston County (Texas) Sheriff’s Deputy about a week ago. Pulled me over claiming I’d “failed to maintain a single lane”. Checked my license and insurance (both valid). Asked me two or three times if I could think of any reason why I didn’t maintain a lane. My only response? “Nope, can’t think of anything”. I got the distinct feeling he was trying to get me to admit to something. Can’t imagine why!
Got pulled over in Louisiana on I-10 at 17 for failure to maintain lane.
LHP officer: “Is there any reason you’d do that”
Me: “Well, I saw you whip into traffic right behind me, and wanted to make sure I got out of your way if your lights came on. I’m not in any hurry”
LHP officer: “Well, you know this is a major artery of drugs and drug money, so we’re gonna search your car, okay?”
Me, thinks about the fact there’s nothing in my car, thinks about explaining to dad why I’m calling from a detention cell in LA and my car has been impounded, decides it will be easier if I’m being framed on a drug charge. “Sure”
So they searched my car and sent me on my way. I learned a shitload about how the interior of a Cavalier came apart and went back together on the side of I-10.
Hah! A different Galveston County deputy pulled me over about three years ago because my headlight was out (it had apparently just gone out, and I hadn’t noticed, since it was working the night before). He asked to search my car…multiple times. I asked him if he had probable cause every time, and when he didn’t, I said no. So, naturally, I got the ticket for the headlight being out. I *may* not have gotten it if I’d let him search, but I was feeling ornery.
I was only asked once if they could search my car. I told them if I could film the search with my phone or have my lawyer present they could. The cop was stunned and asked me why I needed either. I pointed out that I didn’t know him from Adam and wanted to make sure nothing got planted. You should have seen his reaction. In the end he let me film him searching and finding a big nothing unless a emergency road kit is a bad thing.
Me: “And?”
/situation degrades from there
Seriously, WTF does that have to with anything?
Oh, and even further back, on a Greyhound from Lafayette to Mobile (with a stop in NOLA), before we got off the bus the Alabama cops (not sure what jurisdiction) searched *all* the luggage. Busted one guy at the front of the bus for (what looked to me from 30 feet away like) cocaine. Guy in the seat across from me slides up a few seats, and bails when they see he has no luggage. Until they get to his original seat, and find a rather large block of weed. They ask me whose it was, and I helpfully point out that they’d sent him on his way. I got the hairy eyeball until they started pulling clothes out of the bag that were clearly not mine (dude was over 6′, I am not).
Did they put it back together, or did they leave that on the side of the road for you?
It was all in my car. I had to put a couple of the plastic pieces back in and snap it together. Once they figured out I was only guilty of possessing cigarettes, they kind of lost steam. But they still pulled back just about every piece of carpet and took the back bench off.
You are lucky they didn’t demand to check out your prison wallet, man!
Let me guess…Mike Foster was governor.
They got away with that shit for a little while until the other gulf states governors called Foster and said they were going to issue travel warnings about LA to their citizens if LA didn’t knock that shit off.
I just saw it took police 36 minutes to respond to the New Zealand shooter. They’re talking about it like that was a good response time. If you need an example of why New Zealand shouldn’t further restrict gun ownership it’s right there.
It’s not about preserving safety, it’s about exploiting a crisis to consolidate state power.
Further, my new standard response is: “The utilitarian value of a particular policy is irrelevant to the discussion of restriction of personal liberty. Liberty always takes precedence.”
36 minutes? What, did they walk? Christchurch isn’t very big.
Well, they had to meet at the rally point, get kitted out, come up with a plan, and… oh, you didn’t mean you thought they were going to STOP the guy? No, no, that’s not what the police are for. They arrest criminals, they don’t stop crimes.
No, no, that’s not what the police are for. They arrest criminals, they don’t stop crimes.
Very true. Its a shame most people have it the wrong way around.
36 minutes to ram his car and stop him.
“To clarify, Police received its first 111 call at 1.41pm. The first armed Police unit was on scene at 1.47pm. That’s six minutes to respond.
“Within 10 minutes, our Armed Offenders Squad was on scene. Within 36 minutes, a mobile offender was in custody. I am very proud of the Police response to this terrible attack.”
when seconds count during a massacre that lasts 5 minutes, the police are only six minutes away!
Thanks, Elspeth. You remind me it’s time to review this stuff with the Spawn.
Question: do most people have a defense attorney contact? My half-assed plan was to get a referral from one of my biz attorneys, but maybe you can suggest a better route?
Great article!
Call Saul
Find a lawyer you know and like/trust. Easier than shopping for one when the shit hits the fan Tundra.
Yeah, if someone says to me “get a lawyer”, I don’t have the faintest idea how to proceed.
I think that getting a referral from one of your business attorneys (who I assume you know and trust) is probably a good idea. At least around me, lawyers tend to know other lawyers, and they usually know who’s considered a good attorney and who’s not. Odds are your biz attorneys already have some people in their rolodex that would fit the bill.
Or if you know any prosecutors, you could just ask them who they would least want to see sitting across the aisle in court, and then pick that guy/gal.
We (my biz) has a criminal defense attorney just in case. Ask your biz lawyers; they’ll know somebody.
Someone tried to break into my house last year. They were unsuccessful. I did not call the police.
Did you eat their liver with a fine Chianti and some Fava beans?
It was about 2 am and I woke up to the guy kicking my door. I assume he thought the house was empty since as soon as I turned on my light, he took off. Didn’t get a good look at him. Door is fiberglass and the jamb is metal so he wasn’t getting in either way. Definitely wasn’t going to call the cops.
What cup size was she?
“Break into”, not “escape from”.
Meh, Q uses enough Ketamine that they stand no chance to do anything but pose for the titty pics…
actual footage from Q’s house
Ketamine is for amateurs.
Great series Flashmann,
I don’t talk to the police if at all possible. I had to recently when a town vehicle damaged my house. The fire department including the mayor were fine to talk to, but the cop immediately acted like I was a suspect. He asked me my name and address while sitting in-front of my home, which I provided. He then proceeded ask me to provide the number plates on my cars in the driveway, to which I said no, there was not any issue with my cars. He refused to let it go so I told him to get them himself if he was interested as they were clearly visible from the road. This was to get him to pull his fat ass out of the car. He would not take a report until he did this check. He walked up to the porch, saw the “Come Back with a Warrant” mat in front of the door and told me with a smirk that “You wont care about a warrant if you need us some day.”
I don’t call the police if at all possible. I had the dog start barking his head off suddenly at 2:30 last night. This required doing the house sweep with the 45 and a mag light in my skivvies. It was enough of a shock that it kept me up for another hour after. He’s 9 years old now, I hope he doesn’t get senile and bark at very car that drives past or I’m going to get less and less sleep.
You wont care about a warrant if you need us some day.
“Why would I need a cop? You can’t do anything to protect me that I can’t do for myself.”
I will happily exchange my access to police services for a permanent Class 3 FFL.
I pleaded the 5th after that statement. The most of the rest of the department are relatively “respectable” compared to this fat ass hole. Other officers have seen the mat and laughed. I still don’t trust them to protect me, but there is a strong gradient in local police when it comes to being an asshole.
Yeah, they will show up way too late, shoot your dog, then drag your ass to jail for giving them shit for being late AND shooting your dog…
A couple years ago I was on my way home from an NFL game. Late afternoon, not even 5:00 on a sunday. Got pulled over for going 60 in a 50.
Anyway, I had been to the tailgate beforehand, and unfortunately had an almost full beer spilled all over my sweatshirt by a drunk asshole. I wasn’t wearing it at the time i got pulled over, but of course my car smelled like beer. Had to go through the whole field sobriety test, which I passed just fine.
So anyway, the cop tells me “I don’t think you’re drunk, but i’m still going to make you call someone to come pick you up and get your car”. Kind of BS, not sure why I cant just be on my way, but whatever, I call someone. Then he tells me “no matter what happens, i’m still just going to make you call someone, but I want you to take a breathalyzer” So wait, if I blow a 0.0, i still have to wait for someone to come get me? Why? But then if I blow a 0.1…..i still have to wait for someone to come get me. Like you’re not gonna slap me with a DUI, and I’m supposed to believe that? “I’m not trying to trick you” he tells me. uh huh, right. So then why even ask?
So he pressures me for the next 15 mins while I wait for my ride, and I of course politely refuse the breathalyzer. Because why would I take it? I can’t win here. I wasn’t worried, I would have passed the breathalyzer, but come on. “not trying to trick you” give me a freaking break ffs. What kind of shit is that?
I feel like this fits right in with this article because guess what, he DID think i might be drunk (even thought I wasn’t), he just had nothing to go on besides the 5-hour-old spilled beer smell. And he WAS trying to trick me, because he’s a cop and I was the “bad guy”.
I can’t remember where I heard it, but someone said that Trump should come out with a plan to pack the court now with six extra justices appointed by him.
The theory being that the Establishment would move heaven and earth to block him from doing so. Probably pass a constitutional amendment setting the court size at 9.
It would also be funny to see the current crop of Dem candidates pivot to “only nazis would think of packing the court”. Not that the MSM would point out the hypocrisy.
Should Trump add six or more seats to the Supreme Court right now?
via Insty
I like it.
That’s actually a brilliant idea….unless they just let him do it (while publicly protesting of course).
I have already said I think Trump should just float the idea he is going to pack the court so the left is forced on record fighting it. The left, unfortunately, believes rules only apply to their opponent however, and I can see them do it when in power and not even feel ashamed when someone calls them for opposing Trump when he proposed it.
Yeah getting them to say they’re against it doesn’t accomplish anything because they’ll have no problem pretending they didn’t or will just say ‘it’s different now’ once they’re for it.
That is the flaw in the plan isn’t it?
Normal people would have enough shame that they wouldn’t try to push through a proposal after they went to the mat to stop it.
Fuck, I could see them passing a constitutional amendment to stop court packing and then when they get their party back in the Oval Office trying to pack the court and getting Roberts to say that the phrase “shall have no more than nine members” in the new amendment has some hidden penal penumbra that really means that they can another 9 justices.
Incremental increases of 9! Just like a Penaltax!
362880 is a lot of people to add to the court.
Would help solve the unemployment problem the green deal will create as the economy and energy sector all collapse. Everybody will work on the SCOTUS!
Talk about false advertising! I see this thing about a bikini fight during spring break street brawl and figure it is like Q delivering the goods, but then I go watch and it is this shit. They should have put more warnings about people that watch this ended up feeling abused after having to watch fugly skanks smacking each other stupid.