Read the previous installments: Part 1, Part 2
Reduce the Market Itself
Donald Trump campaigned explicitly on term limits. His proposal was that Senators serve only two terms (for a total of 12 years) and that Congressmen and Congresswomen serve only 3 terms (a total of 6 years, for those of you who slept during civics class). This might be the smartest idea that Donald Trump has ever had (proving – yet again – the wisdom in the aphorisms about the blind squirrel and the broken clock).
The surest way to drastically reduce (notice I said “reduce,” not “rid”) the political system of the vast sums of money that pour in from both Democrat and Republican PACS, SuperPACs, Unions, lobbyists, etc., is to make the “market” for politicians be so low that the amounts involved wouldn’t rise high enough to finance a political campaign. You want to discourage both buyers and sellers from even attempting the transaction by making the transaction worth as close to zero as possible.
I have one friend who believes the answer is what I consider the “death penalty” for re-election campaigns: one term only for all politicians, effectively killing the re-election campaign market entirely. Senators would serve their single 6 year term and Congress-critters would get only 2, then it’s just like they say at the barber shop: “Next!” No one would then be able to use the cover of a re-election campaign as their primary vehicle for soliciting donations – and, more importantly, for paying off those donations by changing the legal status of either the donor or the rest of the citizenry, via legislation, or favorable tax status, or whatever form the payoff takes. I believe this is too radical an approach and undermines some of the institutional considerations that led the Founders to structure the government the way they did. My friend’s idea is too much like Congress’ approach for me. “When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail” to quote Maslow’s Law of the Instrument.
Congress’ approach to things they don’t like, as illustrated in part II, is simply to declare it illegal and then order the King’s Men to enforce the edict. What has been repeatedly demonstrated, however, is that simply prohibiting something by declaration – even with draconian enforcement methods and penalties – is an abysmal failure in every instance, including campaign finance reform. Prohibition of alcohol didn’t stop drinking; the War on ________ hasn’t stopped ________. Feel free to fill in your pet cause: Poverty rates are the same today as they were right before Lyndon Johnson declared “War!” on it, notwithstanding the billions and perhaps trillions spent on that war. It’s even worse for Drugs.
I think this attempt to obliterate the entire re-election market has too much downside, no matter how much it personally appeals to me. There are valid arguments for some continuity and retained “corporate knowledge” in the legislative arm of the U.S. government. I believe a middle-ground between the current system and the “no re-election” position is – and I can’t believe I’m saying this – exactly what Trump campaigned on: 12 years for Senators, though I would give 8 years (4 terms) to Congressman, because of the shorter terms. While it doesn’t completely eliminate re-election campaigns, what it would do – along with staggered elections every two years for one-third of each legislative chamber – is drastically reduce the “value” of any given legislator to near zero, because:
- There is a “lag time” required for new legislators to build up their graft mechanisms er, re-election campaigns. It takes some time to find one’s way around. I would give the incoming Senators and House members the benefit of the doubt for one Senatorial term. Twelve years is plenty of time to pursue something, do some legislative “good”… and then it’s time to go back to the productive/working class. The same is true of the 8 year limit for Congressman. After that, as far as I’m concerned, you’re a government welfare recipient of the worst kind.
- Term limits act as a natural check on legislative overreach and ambition. Legislators know that 90% reelection stat and they all are “banking” that they won’t be in the 10% who get sacked. The law is NEVER applied to Senators and House members like it is to the rest of us, as Obamacare showed everyone. (No Senator waits in line at the DMV like you do, either). If, however, the clock is already set for a fixed term, old Congressman Know-Nothing might think twice about what he does to you and me with his pen if he knows in the not-very-distant future, someone may very well be looking at his or her cell phone records, just like yours and mine.
- Large donors would have to take far greater risks with the possibility of no payback for their dollars. Given the current system involves tiered rates for those higher up in the food chain, the time compression of term limits would mean that by the time someone gains the experience to become a Committee Chair, they would likely no longer be facing a re-election campaign to solicit donations, perhaps one or two in Congress. In other words, as one spent more time in the Senate or House with the clock ticking in the background, one’s “value” (measured as the ability to control a legislative agenda, pass legislation, or the like) would get lower with the passing of each day because of dwindling chances for re-election.
More Possible than Ever?
Term limits has been an issue many times in the past. It typically draws favorable polling from both sides of the political aisle. Republicans currently control 33 state legislatures and hold 32 governorships. It takes 34 states (2/3) to call for a Constitutional Convention. It takes 38 to ratify an Amendment. If Trump – and Republican allies – are truly the party of limited government, or want to leave a legacy that would make everything else they ever do pale in comparison, they should be activating on this issue. If the people of these United States want to begin the process of taking their Freedom back, this should be what is one everyone’s lips and on their state and federal representative’s agenda: Term Limits. The Chicago Tribune pointed this out just after the election. They – as a mouthpiece for Democrats since their inception – lament such an idea, but it’s the only form of “campaign finance reform” that will ever work. Given Democrats (and most Republicans) complete ignorance of economics and free-, gray-, and black-markets (the latter two of which are created by politicians via taxes and legislation), don’t expect a big push for this forgotten promise any time soon. Politicians know how their bread gets buttered and they aren’t anxious to see that change. It’s the one campaign promise Trump made – and got right – without sticking his foot in his mouth. We should actually hold him to this one.
It typically draws favorable polling from both sides of the political aisle-
Polls are to get you re-elected, not tell you what people want.
Humphrey Appleby’s take on polls
The Deep State never does, there’s the problem,
Howdy!
Dies not does,
My quick take us that term limits merely addresses the symptoms. Power and graft will transfer to the parties since they pick the candidates.
Unfortunately only reducing government power would work and that is never going to happen.
Power will transfer to the bureaucracy. Without limiting federal employees to X years of service as well, they’ll just end up in charge.
If Trump – and Republican allies – are truly the party of limited government, – hahahahahahahah
It’s the one campaign promise Trump made – and got right – without sticking his foot in his mouth. We should actually hold him to this one. – honestly, good luck with that. I am rooting for you Americans on this one.
Instead of writing term limits into their Constitution, the Founders decided to let the People send whoever they pleased to the House while tempering them by having the State governments appoint the Senators. It was probably a purposeful oversight to leave out term limits when this control on limited government was removed with the 17th Amendment. The Roman Constitution which the Founders were very aware of had strict term limits on most political posts including Consul. The only exception was the Senate.
The Roman Republic political career ladder – Cursus honorum – was shaped by the term limits. It was up or out, no rising to your level of incompetence and spending the rest of your life as a State Senator or as a back-bencher in the House. The other thing I notice in that link is that many of the Roman political jobs are now filled by professional bureaucrats.
If you really want to cut down the Deep State, repeal the Senior Executive Service Act, make all Federal employees at-will, and term-limit the senior staff.
^this
The problem is that government is too big and too complex. If elected officials aren’t experts in how this government works, then unelected bureaucrats will be the experts in how the government works (this is already happening). Term limits for elected officials will make unelected bureaucrats more powerful. The money will move to the new, unelected, unfireable bureaucrats. Term limits will make things worse.
Sunshine is a better solution for graft.
Because I am too lazy to type it again:
YES! Bring back dueling!
Lyndsey would look fabulous on the green being someone’s second.
This is my thought as well. It does enable a class of “experts” in each field/department to pop up to give their always wonderful advice.
Agreed – but at least you would regularly get new Reps and Senators – at least some of whom would be skeptical of the professionals – and not completely corrupted already.
Maybe. This revolving door would also apply to politicians you might actually like for those very reasons.
Question. Not a fan per se….but there is some value in lawmakers having good access to folks specializing in certain fields – I’m sure the system could be reformed, but any recommendations on keeping good sources of accurate information close to the lawmakers?
Push the thinktanks and private orgs vs gov’t employees? Obvious bias present in any case.
Kinnath – see my comment below. So your claim is that right now and for the last 200 years, it’s only been Congress’ “experience” in how government works that has kept the admin state from growing bigger?? I’m sorry, but talk about “assuming facts not in evidence.”
it’s only been Congress’ “experience” in how government works that has kept the admin state from growing bigger??
No.
In my opinion, the administrative state is the bigger problem. Congress made the administrative state immune from termination. Thus changing the executive office has no real effect on the administrative state. An inexperienced congress would have even less leverage over the administrative state. Of course, this could be fixed by congress changing the fucking law that protects the administrative state.
I fear the administrative state fair more than congress critters that are beholden to donors.
What I want: 1) any new executive to be able to fire the entire administrative state if the executive decides to for any reason. 2) Sunshine laws covering big money donors to congress critters (which may run afoul of the 1st amendment). 3) My elected representative having the ability to run a sword through the heart of some commie from California assuming the appropriate protocols are followed. I think Joni Ernst could take Kamala Harris in a fair fight.
My elected representative having the ability to run a sword
The choice of weapons for Congressional duels should be:
(a) Flamethrowers
(b) Chainguns
(c) Hand grenades
Pay per view revenue goes to pay down the national debt.
(c) Hand grenades
This is the only one they should be able to use, and When they do they should be at no more than 5 paces from each-other.
There was one recorded duel wherein the weapons were 18″ edged daggers, and the armor was linen shirts, with a piece of paper divided in half to be used as shields.
Both participants sustained fatal wounds. Perhaps there needs to be some restriction on post-duel medical treatment in these modern times?
I’m good giving them treatment.
The loser, of course, loses their office if they survive.
I think a multi-term limit as endorsed here is probably the best compromise on the issue, as it would come closest to accomplishing what people want with term limits while not gutting either the institutional knowledge or the limiting factor that reelection imposes (without needing to worry about reelection, Congresspeople would be freer to do whatever they want regardless of whether their constituents want it – the greatest danger of a one-and-done system). Personally I prefer the consecutive limit system, where the people can be elected as much as they want but can’t run for the same office more than twice in a row, but that has it’s own issues. Your point about Congresspersons being held to their own laws is especially salient. I remember a government textbook I had talking about some retired politician who now had a different perspective on the law since being in the private sector (running a hotel or something). In any case, I think that term limits are a second tier issue, as reigning in the bureaucracy and making Congress more accountable should be the primary concern.
Thanks for this series of articles. It’s been an interesting and thought-provoking read.
We could do something like Rome where all offices are held for 1 year and you are forbidden from holding the same office for the next 10 years.
I have one friend…
Braggart! 😉
You make a compelling case, Ozy, and I’ve enjoyed the entire series. I do wonder what effect your plan would have on the bureaucracy. Far better to start shutting down 200 or so of the 440+ federal agencies, IMO.
Or a meteor strike. Yeah, maybe that would be the best.
I’m still holding out hope that we’re conquered by libertarian aliens from outer space.
Only if they look like this.
conquered by libertarian
Yeah, about that…
Shhhhh just let me dream even if it makes 0 sense.
I like the idea here, but I think it doesn’t quite go far enough. Maximum # of terms should ideally be 0.
Try this instead:
Get rid of the ridiculous pension for Senators and Representatives. They make/get the usual SocSec contributions on their Congressional pay, and that’s it. Getting elected was never supposed to be a lifetime grant of revenue. Take that away, and they might be incentivized to go out into the real world to make the kind of money they want to retire on.
Oh, also, all investable assets should be in a broad market fund while you are in office. No trading on inside info dropped in your lap by lobbyists. All other transactions to be posted publicly. No more shady real estate deals that can’t stand the light of day.
Wanna be rich? Congress isn’t where that happens.
I like idea here, but it doesn’t quite go far enough. Instead of getting rid of pensions for Senators and Representatives just get rid of Senators and Representatives.
But who would put on ridiculous kabuki theater, kangaroo court hearings, and pointless dog-and-pony shows?
Well, we still have the Ivy league.
RC – “Ozy’s Great Plan” would also include pensions ONLY if you get to 20 years, like the military, which would mean no Congress-perks. Huge ‘welfare reform’ savings. I would also give judges a specified term of 20 years, which would let them have pensions, but you go after that.
I don’t see anyone getting to 20 years under this system, unless its by a few days due to an accident of the calendar.
Yep. And if someone could manage to pull that off in their district, that’s fine by me. Would greatly reduce incentives.
One suggestion for your 20 year plan. Do it like the guard/reserve, where you don’t get the retirement when you hit 20, you get it when you turn 65 (or whatever age you pick).
Wanna be rich? Congress isn’t where that happens.
I am not sure this will not lead to more graft and revolving doors.
more graft
Sufficient restrictions and transparency will greatly minimize graft.
revolving doors
Good point. I like the excise tax on post-Congressional income for that.
Ban air conditioning in all house and senate offices and chambers. That will turn congress back into a part time job.
In the am lynx I posted a story about Pelosi and her henchpeople on a taxpayer funded trip to Spain. It already is a part-time job!
They won’t be passing laws or holding hearings in Spain.
Full-time fundraisers, part-time legislators.
You know what’s funny about this? It might be the best solution. And I’m not joking, either. You could pick variations on that theme (of making DC just plain too uncomfortable for them), but this one would be the easiest to implement and involve the least amount of ‘hidden hand’ consequences to the populace. Might well produce the best results, too.
Again, I’m really not joking. Making bureaucrats uncomfortable works. I’ve seen this (and even done it) in a career in the Marine Corps, where – despite what you may have been told – there are also bureaucrats. Given some of the SOL issues, I’d rather not add details.
As I recall, DC was picked because it was unlivable during the summer month. I’ve read that air-conditioning ruined the way the congress operated (it wasn’t my idea).
I had heard that, as well, and it’s why I went back to comment. And as I was thinking about it, I thought about some things I had seen or done to make bureaucrats/admin people uncomfortable and the effect it had.
/looks around, yep, it checks out
Ban air conditioning in all house and senate offices and chambers.
I don’t think that would do it. They would just relocate to hotels, conference centers, etc. I think you have to ban air conditioning in any building that is not a residence or retail establishment/restaurant, and then probably put a square footage cap on that.
“Bad” news: the Deep State office buildings mostly don’t even have windows that open. They would be Bombay-in-the-hot-season unpleasant for six months a year.
So Trump orders the air conditioning to be turned off in all administrative buildings as token to the climate crises crew . . . .
Brilliant.
Let’s just move the capitol and all agencies to McMurdo Station.
And let me repeat here what I’ve said before in response to the “the bureaucrats would take over” argument: that is a claim without evidence. What we have now is Congress largely being run by staffers on anything substantive – i.e. everything is currently being researched by college student interns – while the CongressCritters are out fundraising, schmoozing for the camera, and otherwise playing Machiavelli. The “bureaucrats” are largely creatures of the Executive. They have their own Article I courts – I know, I’ve litigated in them. Those giant agencies may be created by Congress, but fundamentally they’ve punted all of the ‘interpretation,’ rule-making, and day-to-day running to those people already. I fail to see how term limits makes that worse. What, is someone saying that right now Congress is actually conducting oversight using all of their superior experience and that’s why it’s not worse?? I don’t get this argument against term limits at all. It doesn’t comport with the reality I see and it seems like an objection just to make an objection that “nothing will work short of______.”
I am for term limits but doubt they solve much. A government that controls the economy will be corrupt. Whatever rules you put in place. Term limits probably can help a bit but not to much. The help is just more occasionally idealist or non corrupt people getting in congress, but this can lead to more Ocasio Cortezes as well.
Terms limits would need to be part of a much bigger solution, true. But I do like them as part of the solution.
this can lead to more Ocasio Cortezes as well
Occasional Cortex for 8 years is more survivable than Occasional Cortex for 40 or 50 years (which is what we are looking at now).
AOC, for all of her vapidity and just sheer ignorance, has done nothing to me personally. For all her raving and eye-rolling, she has done far less than the vast majority of Congresspeople now serving. I don’t think she is a very good example to support your argument. Indeed, she might even be the poster child for supporting mine. More AOCs would lead to a LOT less regulation.
What we need IN ADDITION TO term limits, is a repeal on the sheer amount of laws that exist now.
a repeal on the sheer amount of laws that exist now. – not happening. I think the tipping point is past. To many interests in the current situation.
An automatic sunset clause applied to every law would be a wonderful fantasy. Laws Congresscritters can’t agree to renew vanish, while the ones that have a broad appeal go on. At the very least, arguing over which laws to continue is better than them scheming up new reasons to throw people in prison.
I think it would be pointless. There would be a pro forma “continuing resolution” reinstating all expiring laws, probably voted on first thing every session to get it out of the way.
“Ah, Congresshole X, I see you have submitted your committee assignment requests. I’m sure we can accommodate these, assuming you do nothing untoward on tomorrow’s CR vote.”
Given my skepticism of the abilities of the elected vs. the unelected is pretty much equal, its more a matter of picking poison, to be honest.
What we have now is Congress largely being run by staffers on anything substantive – i.e. everything is currently being researched by college student interns – while the CongressCritters are out fundraising, schmoozing for the camera, and otherwise playing Machiavelli.
My understanding is that a lot of those staffers aren’t exactly college interns. They’re careerists who have been aligned with different Congressmen for a long time. My guess is that they align pretty closely with the Executive bureaucracy.
They start being groomed out of college. Then they all go into various public policy “pipelines” if their particular dirtbag stays in office. (One of my daughters worked for a Congressman and I’ve spent a good bit of time on the Hill). Eventually, yes, they get more ‘experience’ but that is also with one particular senator or congressman. None of that undercuts my argument that term limits would help eliminate some of that bureaucracy, however. This idea that there is some pool of bureaucrats from which the Senators, and which will become all-powerful without longer-termed politicians is just crazy. That’s not how it works at all.
We also have to have an expiration date on all laws, with some kind of procedural rig to make it more than just a rubber stamp to get it re-passed. I think a 5 year limit on all legislation, subject to a re-vote by a 55-45 majority would be enough to really cut down on what’s on the books now. There would also have to be a presumption against legislation that’s more than a generation old. Hey, the millenials and all the Progs keep saying how we should be able to ignore the Constitution because OLD, so why should legislation be any different? I would jam their own arguments right up their ass.
There would just be a blanket vote to deem existing laws repassed, like approving the minutes of a meeting. See reapproval of Army funding or even passing a single budget bill rather than continuing resolutions.
Agreed. The bureaucrats have to follow the law. Sure, there will be some crooks but they would have to break the law/rules and it would be easier to catch them. That disincentive would exponentially reduce the amount of money in graft. FFS, as it is congresscritters all have some kind of charity or foundation that they launder the bribe money through. How much did Hillary sell her office for? I have heard numbers from hundreds of million to over a billion. Same for Biden. Aside from the money he laundered through his son there were contributions to some kind of Biden charity. It is unlikely that that kind of money would flow to the bureaucrats. They wouldn’t be exploiting loopholes, they would have to outright break the law which would be much more likely get red flagged.
One more thing: Mexico has term limits. We might be looking down the same road as the gun grabbers.
Tumbrel carts and gibbets on the Potomac; it’s the only way to be sure.
And let me repeat here what I’ve said before in response to the “the bureaucrats would take over” argument: that is a claim without evidence.
I’d say the CFR and the current war between Trump and the bureaucracy are pretty conclusive evidence that the bureaucrats are already the primary center of power.
As to the substance of your argument I’ve largely expressed my thoughts previously, but briefly:
I see no evidence that a lack of long term immunity from the laws they pass would stop them from passing over reaching laws. They don’t seem to change their voting behavior when they are planning to move on from Congress now. moving on.
The reason that freshmen are ineffective is not something inherent in freshmen. It is a deliberately engineered aspect of the way Congress works it is carefully cultivated to keep power concentrated in the hands of the long term members. If there are no long term members that will necessarily change. When I previously raised tis point you dismissed it as without evidence. I would regard it as obvious on its face, but allow me to explain:
If there is a system in place to protect group x and to ensure that group x has all the power, since the system is created by and defended by group x, when you remove group x, that system cannot continue to exist because 1. it no longer has defenders 2. it is no longer possible.
The Legislative power will not go away, the system concentrating the power in the long term members will go away ergo the power will now be held by the shorter term members. There will still be every incentive for cronies to influence legislation and I am unconvinced that campaign contributions are the most significant vector for that influence. Lucrative think tank seats, cushy jobs after retirement, cushy jobs for relatives, junkets (which never went away) etc. all will still exist.
It might keep corruption prices down somewhat as naive newcomers may not know how much they can expect to get.
I don’t think we should conduct experiments via amendment and term limits would be an experiment. Despite every thing I have written or you have written, or anyone has written, we do not know what the consequences would be.
I’ll just stipulate to what you’ve written, though I don’t concede that it is the case. (In fact, my experiences on Capitol Hill belie how you believe it works.) Regardless, I will simply take what you’ve said at face value and point out that every piece of legislation is an experiment; every law that’s written is currently treated as if it is Holy Writ and lasts in perpetuity. So, I’m uncertain why the “current system” is somehow “good” and an amended system is “bad” (using those are shorthand words for your disagreement with amending the Constitution.) In short, you prefer the Devil You Know and I do not. I think the current system has revealed itself to be broken. I think most of us here probably feel that way at some level. I’m not afraid of “what might happen” because to amend the Constitution would actually require a big chunk of the electorate to considering it – the Constitution – probably for the first time. There are all kinds of second and third order benefits to holding a Constitutional Convention again, including that it would show people that the entire experiment is not magical. WE THE PEOPLE are actually supposed to be the ones with the power. I think even the attempt would do wonders for the current asymmetrical tilt of power between FedGov and the rest of us. For that reason alone I think it would be justified.
We’ll have to agree to disagree I imagine, but I’m not afraid of what happens if we do something; I’m much more afraid of what happens if we do nothing. My own lifetime has been all the proof I’ve needed.
The last Constitutional Convention completely overturned the existing order and created the Federal Government. Yes, I am afraid of what happens if we open that door.
I’m thinking that the nonstop antifa v normies rioting outside the convention would, at the very least, put an unfortunate bias on the proceedings.
I used to be of that opinion… But still remember that even a convention requires the ratification of the changes. I doubt many “Sweeping” changes would be made. My hope for a convention would be that because it excludes the Federal Government, it is probably our only chance at making any serious reform to limiting the power of Congres.
I’m fond of adding a Nullification amednment, codifying the practice of state nullification of unconstitutional powers. SCOTUS can not be the sole arbiter of what the constitutional agreement means. I would also be a fan of an amendment codifying the ability of states to secede.
SCOTUS can not be the sole arbiter of what the constitutional agreement means.
My take is that each branch of government not only can, but is obligated to, makes it own determination of Constitutionality. If any branch says “this isn’t Constitutional”, their determination stands. You essentially need a consensus of all three branches for something to be Constitutional. Its more of a one-way ratchet against Constitutionality than what we have now. If any branch says its not Constitutional, then its not.
Practically speaking, of course, the only real change from this would be to empower the President to say “nope, not doing that, regardless of Congress or the courts ordering me to do it.” As long as it was limited to refusing to comply with a court order or legislation on Constitutional grounds, rather than taking affirmative action regardless of the other branches, it would be very interesting. Among other things, it would effectively be a post-facto line item veto on legislation.
In theory. In practice, I would expect to eventually be warped into yet another power grab.
I meant states should have some redress of themselves to determine the constituionality of what the federal government does. The Fed Gov can’t be the sole judge of the agreement of the states.
Breaking: Kamala is dropping out today.
Its a tough call, but I always thought she was the most evil of the candidates.
It is tough. Do you factor in “Likeliehood of getting elected at all” in to it. Because Beto and swallwell “Let’s Nuke District 13” were pretty evil, but never had any chance. By the same Token Warren is the most evil in my mind if we factor chance of getting the reigns of power. No shit fascist who has never made any statement about foreign policy.
Do you factor in “Likeliehood of getting elected at all” in to it.
Not really. I was going off of sheer personal horribleness.
Swallwell’s threat to nuke deplorables was never going to happen (although is eagerness to sic the military on dissenters is noted, but I suspect is universally shared by the other candidates).
Warren scares the shit out of me.
Harris is just Hillary with a tan.
Just to be clear, if Hillary declares again, she will be the new evilest candidate, in my book.
I’ll put it this way. Wall Street was convinced they could buy Hillary off, they knew she was for sale.
To me, that makes her less dangerous than Warren, who has managed to scare the shit out of the Wall Street fatcats. It says that even those corrupt motherfuckers don’t think they’ll be able to put a lid on the damage she could do.
I don’t agree. Warren has all the Machiavellian corruption of a Hillary combined with the policy insanity of a Bernie Sanders.
No but she did say she would get rid of the electoral college. That is the equivalent of saying she would throw away the constitution entirely.
By the same Token Warren is the most evil in my mind if we factor chance of getting the reigns of power
Honestly, Warren scares me more than Beto and Swallwell because she knows well enough not to say that she’d do it. I don’t doubt for a second that she’d do exactly the same thing, just making sure to relabel the gun owners “domestic terrorists” or “militias” or somesuch. More than any other candidate, the shit I’ve heard her say is exactly what I’d expect from a totalitarian.
Tough call indeed.
She beat Warren out by just a few points.
Bernie, as an outright Soviet shill and career grifter, is in the top tier, but I just can’t take him all that seriously.
Biden just wants to keep on grifting and mugging for the cameras. As reprehensible as he is, he just doesn’t have the stench the others do.
She’s the one with the proven track record of using state violence against people so I think she’s a lock for most evil.
CFPB being used to fund democratic activists?
FAKE NEWS
Even if you set term limits at 25 years, you’d still weed out the most egregious lifers. I’d be happy with fifteen.
I would also set the term limit as a total time in House and/or Senate.
I think I would go with 12 and 8 and as RC and I discussed above, no pension for anyone in federal service unless you get to 20, just like the military – and with the same exact system, byt the way for payout, and if someone could manage to cobble that into 20 in their district, that’s fine.
To plug another loophole, I would also ban the immediate family of anyone elected to Congress from being eligible to run for Congress. Spouse, siblings, and spawn.
*standing O*
Well Ozzy, Great series. I’ll say that im at least convinced that Term Limits wouldn’t do any additional harm, though i think i’m still unconvinced that they would limit the graft and selling of legislation as much as is hoped for.
I’ll say it again to be clear: I have a rather long-ass list of things that need to be fixed, but I’ve tried to demonstrate the ‘economics’ of legislation and then tried to find a method to disincentivize it by undercutting that market, as it were. This is in NO WAY an exclusive list of things that need to be fixed. But I don’t think we can keep going on the way that we are: I’ve had to pay lobbyists and I’ve been lobbied against. I’ve spent time over on K Street and our company bused to have an office dedicated to dealing with those assholes.
But I can’t agree that the answer is “Do nothing. Nothing works. We’re all doomed.” That attitude would have foreclosed the existence of this country. NO ONE could beat the British Navy, much less the Navy and Army, so I just can’t agree with the “nothing works, so try nothing” idea, no matter how much ‘chocolate logic sauce’ people try to put around it to justify inaction.
The cybernetic city-manager in me would love to have some chocolate logic sauce.
I hereby bequeath that band name to the Glibertariat.
Chocolate Rain
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwTZ2xpQwpA
When are auditions?
Or does “Logic” in the name disqualify }}me{{? ; )
You can pick your aphorism: “Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good”, “A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step”, “Rome wasn’t built in a day”, etc. I agree though, as pessimistic as I am, that even if the best result you can get is only marginally better, it’s still *better*, and it’s a start. The LP could learn that lesson, IMO; God knows the left mastered incrementalism in this country.
Yep. Nothing breeds success like a little success. Have to start somewhere.
You can’t be libertarian and compromise on the slightest issue. This is known.
perhaps i wasn’t clear. I think that Term Limits would be Net Benefit, I’m not convinced limiting the selling of legislation would be greatly hampered. I’m trying to think of a simple Supply/Demand graph of selling legislation. Supply isn’t being restricted (there are the same amount of legislators, wielding the same power). Demand is shfited down, by some amount do to the increased risk of making a bad pick (someone who is a dud for the period of time you bought them). In the end the ammount sold is less, but at a lower price. So it might be a boon on net, i just don’t see it being a huge marignal impact on slowing government growth. So i’m all for it, i just have lower expectations.
I am. Living in a state where they were in effect for a while just turns over the puppets passing legislation. The staff, the lobbyists, and the civil service remain in place. Hey! They can guide the green legislator around in how to get what they want done.
Kamala is dropping out today.
Bloomberg is out-polling her. Maybe she’ll fling herself off the Golden Gate Bridge.
Thanks for the series Ozy, I learned a lot, again….
My pleasure, Yusef! (By the by, I’m in the middle of my own minor crisis with kids, but I should be clear of it later this week. My apologies but the Turkey Day holiday saw family in town. I’ll ring you up tomorrow.)
Roger
What we need IN ADDITION TO term limits, is a repeal on the sheer amount of laws that exist now.
Hear, hear.
The US Code will see no material reduction. Period, full stop, fuhgeddaboudit. The only thing that will remove its boot from our neck is a no-kidding revolution, where the current government is replaced lock, stock, and barrel.
I, personally, would expect to die in the early fighting of the Second American Revolution, on account of being old and slow, but too pissed off to just sit it out.
Yeah, the whole idea of it gives me a feeling of dread.
#metoo
The Boogaloo memes are funny but I want nothing to do with martial action in CONUS. Things are shitty, but (IMHO) nowhere shitty enough to risk millions of casualties and a hatred/animosity that lasts more than a century. I’ll opt to keep my working grocery stores, running water/ready electricity and Amazon Prime deliveries, thank you very much.
#methree
The silk handcuffs are very nice. And the likely outcome isn’t American Revolution II: Moar Freedom.
Indeed. “Anarchy sounds good to me, ’til someone asks – who’ll fix the sewers? Would the rednecks just play king of the neighborhood? How many liberators really want to be dictators? Every theory has its holes once real life steps in.“
But not your guns, your freedom of speech, your privacy, your freedom of movement, etc. Unless there is some drastic and currently unforeseeable change.
Remember: the totalitarian wing of the UniParty will gain complete control of Congress and the Presidency someday soon. And they have learned their lesson from losing to Trump and the Repubs three years ago. That will be our “democracy is a streetcar” moment. I am sure the forms of elections will be preserved (what totalitarian hellhole doesn’t have “elections”?), but the likelihood that the totalitarians will ever lose power will be vanishingly small.
Warren and the electoral college is just the bellwether. The carping about “voter suppression” is a warning. Look forward to “comprehensive election reform” next chance they get.
My calculus is influenced by having a wife and especially having kids, but I think that just as there are degrees of authoritarianism and statism and so forth there are also degrees of resistance. Nobody’s going to repeal the 1st Amendment in one fell swoop, but they’ll sure as hell legislate it into irrelevance. Conversely, the more restrictions the government puts on freedom, the more avenues people create to circumvent them.
I always come back to guns because that’s my big issue but it’s also a great example. As gun laws become more restrictive you see more circumvention. Once you reach a certain point, people just start quietly breaking the laws. If you go beyond that to raids on homes looking for hidden firearms you’ll start to see vigilante action against the people involved. I don’t think it gets to a revolution per se or a civil war until you’ve had years and years of something closer to the Prohibition era.
That’s my retirement plan!
Richard Neuberger wrote “They never go back to Pocatello” 70 years ago. Excessive terms and term limits are a symptom and will never fix the underlying issues. There’s too much power and money in government, particularly fed gov, and there are few institutional and cultural controls on that power.
FDR’s four terms isn’t the problem. That voters didn’t sack him in the 3rd election for his breaking of precedent is the problem.
And term limits don’t seem to have done a hell of a lot to curb Executive over reach.
Well yes. There is an upper limit of size and wealth before any goverment becomes hopelessly corrupt. The Romams passed it at some point while taking over most of the Mediterranean. We passed it at some point a century or so ago.
More AOCs would lead to a LOT less regulation.
I’m not really sure of that. The problem is you can’t really scale the model up the way you’re talking about. AOC is a powerless joke because there’s a lot of Congresspeople with a lot more time and influence under their belt. And the long-time servers wind up with a lot more responsibility for their party, overall. A high turnover Congress is going to mean the more “senior” members are only people with a few more years than the new AOCs under their belt. A Nancy Pelosi, for all her faults (and they are myriad) has an incentive and clout to tell an AOC to go pound sand if she understands that a radical piece of legislation is going to damage her party’s election prospects. Now, imagine replacing her with someone whose legislative career dates back all the way to…2012?
And once the civil service realizes they just need to slow roll a few years until the politician is removed by term limits…
You think that’s not how it is now??
OT, I know, but it seems related to the morning links article I posted about cars being proven to be locked thing
BREAKING: A Petaluma man who died after police used a carotid restraint on him was mistaken for a stolen-vehicle suspect. He was driving his own car,
https://twitter.com/demianbulwa/status/1201714223379673088
Weird situation…
Twitter yet again proves to be a steaming pile of the worst humanity has to offer. I wasn’t surprised to find people assuming it was white cops killing a black man but I was impressed that one Internet scumbag managed to blame “gun culture” AND exonerate the police in one fell swoop.
Well, he shouldn’t have been driving, then it never would have happened….
https://www.sfchronicle.com/crime/article/Petaluma-man-who-died-after-police-carotid-14877227.php
Driving your own vehicle that you reported stolen, then don’t report that it isn’t stolen anymore. Then when being pulled over by the police, in your recently reported stolen vehicle, you decide to not stop and go on a small chase with the cops. Once forced to stop you continue to not follow any instructions they give you.
Super weird.
That’s stupid, but should not be punishable by death.
Yeah, I’m not pro-cop in this story, but it’s not quite as simple as a random guy getting profiled and murdered. Like, this shouldn’t have happened, but at the same time I can think of a number of ways this guy could’ve gotten out of this situation alive, and I can understand how the police went down the path they did here up to the point where they choke him out.
“Officer-involved choking”
Hey everyone. CPRM and I are starting work on a Glibertarian themed podcast. Currently it has the utterly unimaginative name of “The Glibcast”.
We would love to make it a collaborative effort. We’re still whiteboarding ideas for format and feel. Pretty close to getting it all locked down. In between recorded segments will be some chat we’ll do over Discord, so everyone can jump in. We’re working on some great guests for interviews. Some news segments. Some fun nonsense. Before we launch, we want to have a few practice sessions under our belt.
If anyone feels like this would be fun, and they would want to join in, send an email to glibcasters at gmail dot com.
Live Debates! Live Debates!
Absolutely want to do that!
Speaking of, did we get the results of Pie V. Larry Joe?
Like you could find two Glibs that disagree, it’s a goddamn echo chamber up in this Mickey Fickey.
I agree.
We’ll assign someone to be a designated Tulpa.
Ahhh the Welch role.
I’m assuming Pie plays Moynihan.
Don’t worry Hyp, you’re invited to be a permanent guest on the show. Problem solved.
Ah, but what happens after two shows when everyone is agreeing with me.
Q shows up and the show is moved to Cinemax.
We all put a bullet in our head and it won’t matter anymore.
Live Debates! Live Debates!
Followed by amateur bare-knuckle boxing?
No gloves? Pass.
Hey don’t pick on UCS!
Hahahaha! Touche, or something!
Do you need a guy to repeat the funny thing that the other guys say until it’s not funny anymore?
Also and unrelated, podcast title idea – “SHUT THE FUCK UP, GLIBTARD!”
How about: “Sounds About Right”
Oh, you really should consider calling it Glibberish.
That’s actually very good.
What a hugbox.
I really like that. Like, insanely so.
Larf.
https://www.foxnews.com/lifestyle/perineum-sunning-josh-brolin
Taint very smart.
*face palm*
Should read: “Doctors unclear on Vitamin D synthesis.”
“Hi, I’m stupid.”
Quality commenting on the article.
I mean, it takes some balls to come out and admit that.
he didn’t want anyone else to get burned by this scam.
https://dailycaller.com/2019/12/03/trump-emmanuel-macron-isis-fighters-nato/
Trump and Macron are both expressing the position that is, no doubt, most popular with their voters (nobody wants ISIS fighters back). A pretty testy exchange to have in front of cameras, though.
If defeating ISIS is france’s priority, we should leave them to it.
Yes, unfortunately they mean Horus’ Mom.
Oh, c’mon. The French can barely defeat a baguette.
Well, duh!:
[An unsolicited sexual advance] from an attractive or physically attractive actor is perceived as less harmful than from an unattractive actor.
The key is to being really good looking.
https://tube.midov.pl/videos/watch/5b3951fb-172a-44cb-a15f-c6efc1de9d81
Some of those Coronet Films are really dated but every so often you find one that stands the test of time.
I guess you have to test seemingly-obvious things, but I have to ask: How much was spent on a study about whether people mind getting hit on by hotties?
It’s all relative, man! If an 8 hits on a 10, it’s “meh”. A 5 or 6 is creepy, and a 1 or 2 is sexual assault. Reverse the situation, and you go from “nice” to Loser (probably NSFW if you don’t have headphones)
The problem is knowing your own number or at least admitting it to yourself.
Indeed – and knowing the relative effects of your consumption and the target’s consumption. Otherwise you might go to bed with a 10
“The Chicago Tribune pointed this out just after the election. They – as a mouthpiece for Democrats since their inception”
Um…not as such. Medill founded it to boost Lincoln, Col. McCormick was quite the enemy of FDR, etc. They loved Reagan.
Instead of term limiting the House, we should set it back to it’s original district size, and use some sort of tech solution to allow meetings while the representatives remain in their districts rather than moving to DC. The sheer number of people would make it hard to bribe enough of them, and the smaller districts would make for far more competitive elections, as people would be more likely to know their representatives personally (and therefore be a LOT less likely to believe them to be particularly smart).
I’ve thought of this, but i just don’t trust Tech for it.
10,907 representatives by my count. You would need tech and not everyone could add amendments or riders to bills and I’m not sure about committees. You would need a lot more changes than to just the number.
Oh, it would absolutely break the current mechanics of the House – but I consider that a feature, not a bug.
“The Chicago Tribune pointed this out just after the election. They – as a mouthpiece for Democrats since their inception”
Of note, Murray Rothbard read The Chicago Tribune religiously while living in NYC. The reason being that the Tribune, under Colonel McCormick, was the preeminent anti-war right-wing publication. It remained so until the Colonel passed away, at which point they reverted to an interventionist right-wing position. They have always represented the interests of business in the City. I would hardly call them the “mouthpiece for Democrats”.
They aren’t as right-wing as they once were even just a decade ago, but they are most assuredly on “the right” with regards to economics. Their editorial board has never endorsed a Democrat for president, with the exception of Barack Obama (which they struggled to justify the second time around) and Gary Johnson in 2016 (who was running a Junior Varsity type of Democratic campaign).
And if you visit Colonel McCormick’s estate out in Wheaton today, you will find that half of it has been turned into an outdoor museum of World War I and II era tanks. McCormick opposed the US’s entry into both conflicts (although, he and the Tribune changed their position after the attack on Pearl Harbor). It’s like some kind of bizarre “fuck you” to the man.
That’s sad. And pretty rude.
You think that’s rude, take a look at the $20.
I don’t know about that. The wiki entry on him makes him seem like a fairly military-minded man, an America-First type not a pacifist. If so, then a tank museum isn’t really an insult. He is called “Colonel” McCormick, after all.
The America First committee was the people who opposed the Second World War. All of them were smeared as Nazi sympathizers after the war. Even Kennedy’s father, who may have been a criminal, but he was no Nazi.
If you go on the Mises Institute there are articles about the Chicago Tribune under McCormick. It was the only publication that generally opposed military involvement overseas and opposed the creation of NATO and the UN. They were Old Right.
I grew up reading the Chicago Trib; my dad subscribed from western Iowa.
I loved it because they had comics, but no comics page. The comics were scattered throughout the paper (usually 4 sections), so I had to go through the whole thing to get my funnies. I think it’s a large part of what made me an information omnivore.
I haven’t seen one in a while, but I doubt the funnies are like they use to be. The decline of newspaper comics is so sad.
Where have you gone, Dagbert and Blondie? A nation turns its lonely eyes to you
psst it’s Dagwood.
Well that’s just a stupid name. Now I’m glad that cartoon no longer exists
I will remove that. Everything I have ever read from them (admittedly not a second city guy) is like a statist manifesto. Maybe I presumed that meant they were Team Blue when I should have known the answer can always be “both.” They’re both statist teams.
Some of their opinion writers are among the worst statists in the country, but the editorial board is firmly not quite as statist as other major newspapers.
They are “Midwestern conservative”, as they refer to themselves. Think, Mike Royko (who had a column with them for a long time). If you read John Kass (who took Royko’s column space after he died) he’s a pretty good encapsulation of their editorial position, generally.
Hey, the most important other amendment I would add is a balanced budget – to obliquely address “continuing resolutions.” No budget passed, no Congressional pay. I would back it up with default numbers on spending. i.e. No budget passed means that 5% of the prior year’s collected tax revenues would be allocated to the military. Or I’d model it on Sweden’s law. Whatever. The discussion alone would be worth it to force the citizenry to participate and find out what’s being spent in their name and why it’s so fucked up.
I’m going to corpsefuck the thread because (a) it’s my article, and (b) I had a fuck-ton of ’emergency’ calls and I couldn’t be on here to participate. (NB – Lawyers are just so… fucking tedious).
Let me just add a general thought on the notion of Amending the Constitution because that’s really what this article should have been entitled and about, rather than being aimed at advocating for any one specific amendment as I did here. Or maybe I’ll keep adding on to this with additional proposals you all can keep coming by and saying how none of these individually would work; but here’s the broader point.
The Constitution on its terms contains more than one vehicle for amending it – it was literally designed to be amended, and has been, repeatedly. We can all look at various aspects of the last 230 years, look at the extant historical record, the reasons given for what was done and the proposed criticisms, and make a judgment as to who got it right and whether other unforeseen consequences have intervened and things have gone as planned or not. There are a million examples to pick from, including Supreme Court decisions, and I don’t understand the notion of just “do nothing” because of the possibility of future bad consequences. Congress gives zero fucks about the continually bad decisions they make and the consequences that we have to eat because of it, and I propose doing something to limit their power and I have to say, I’m quite shocked at how many of you supposedly free-minded, gun-toting, freedom-loving shitlords blanche at the very notion that limiting the duration of the shitbags’ stay as our overlords is even worth considering.
Our Forefathers fought a bloody, miserable war, suffered privation most of us can’t even begin to imagine in our worst nightmares, including the death of their kids, rape of their wives, not to mention torture, dying of horrific wounds or, (more likely) infection, for the exact point that they wouldn’t “bend the knee” to any man – because we are all EQUAL before the Infinite Majesty of some Creator. I can’t tell you the respect and admiration I have for those men and WOMEN, who always bear the worst of war’s horrors – ALWAYS. I feel an obligation to preserve that. Our Congresscritters act no differently that I can discern than the Lords, Nobles, etc. of that bygone era. They’re almost all millionaires. Their kids attend exclusive private schools. They have armed guards to protect them from… US – AND THEY MAKE US FUCKING PAY FOR IT. Just think about that for a minute when you’re polishing off your freedom fries.
“For those who have fought for it, Freedom has a flavor the protected never know.”
– Anonymous on a C-ration can at the Siege of Khe Sanh
Let’s call the above my “moral case” for term limits. Or a brief moment of channeling Thomas Paine. Fuck those people – they shouldn’t be there that long. No one should. Power corrupts Man more certainly than “The One Ring to Rule Them All.” I believe Lord Acton was undoubtedly correct in his famous letter to Mendell Creighton. The whole quote is worth considering, but I won’t paste it here, but instead urge you to consider term limits in the context of what he says on holders of high office.
I’m all for term limits of 0 terms.
Solid answer. A continuation of my prior thought that got hung up in spam.
Our Forefathers fought a bloody, miserable war, suffered privation most of us can’t even begin to imagine in our worst nightmares, including the death of their kids, rape of their wives, not to mention torture, dying of horrific wounds or, (more likely) infection, for the exact point that they wouldn’t “bend the knee” to any man – because we are all EQUAL before the Infinite Majesty of some Creator. I can’t tell you the respect and admiration I have for those men and WOMEN, who always bear the worst of war’s horrors – ALWAYS. I feel an obligation to preserve that. Our Congresscritters act no differently that I can discern than the Lords, Nobles, etc. of that bygone era. They’re almost all millionaires. Their kids attend exclusive private schools. They have armed guards to protect them from… US – AND THEY MAKE US FUCKING PAY FOR IT. Just think about that for a minute when you’re polishing off your freedom fries.
“For those who have fought for it, Freedom has a flavor the protected never know.”
– Anonymous on a C-ration can at the Siege of Khe Sanh
Let’s call the above my “moral case” for term limits. Or a brief moment of channeling Thomas Paine. Fuck those people – they shouldn’t be there that long. No one should. Power corrupts Man more certainly than “The One Ring to Rule Them All.” I believe Lord Acton was undoubtedly correct in his famous letter to Mendell Creighton. The whole quote is worth considering, but I won’t paste it here, but instead urge you to consider term limits in the context of what he says on holders of high office.