In 1672, 69-year-old Roger Williams clambered into a skiff and rowed, solo, twenty-five miles down Narragansett Bay to publicly debate several Quakers. It was an action typical of Williams who was never afraid to put his beliefs into action. Williams was a fascinating character for multiple reasons, but in this piece I would like to explore his ideas of religious toleration, formulated in the first half of the seventeenth century, long before the Enlightenment forced such debates into a wider public sphere.
Williams was born c. 1603 in London, graduated from Pembroke College, Cambridge 1627, and took orders in the Church of England. However, while at Cambridge, Williams embraced Puritanism which would have had a detrimental effect on his career prospects had he stayed in England. But, in 1630, Williams and his wife Mary (they married in 1629) decided to immigrate to New England. The couple were part of the so-called Puritan Great Migration, precipitated by the crackdown on Puritans initiated by Charles I and William Laud.
By the time Williams arrived in New England, he had embraced Separatism, a more radical subset of Puritanism. Most English Puritans believed that, although the English Reformation had not gone far enough, the Church of England (CoE) was a true, albeit impure, church which God could yet purify. Separatists, however, believed the Church of England was not a true church and could not be redeemed (FWIW: the Pilgrims of Plymouth were Separatists; the much larger number of Puritans who settled at Massachusetts Bay were mostly non-separatists).
Even for a Separatist, Williams was a radical. He believed that all those who wished to be members of the new pure churches in New England must publicly repent of their past involvement with the CoE and declare they would never be involved with it again. All ministers who had served in a CoE church in the past had to renounce this involvement. In fact, insufficient separation from the CoE led Williams to turn down invitations to pastor in Plymouth and at Boston’s First Church. However, in December, 1633, Williams accepted an invitation to become pastor-teacher at Salem, Massachusetts a church largely comprised of Separatists.
Williams’s tenure as pastor at Salem was riven with turmoil. Space does not allow for the details to be provided here, but Williams’s public pronouncements precipitated first a rhetorical conflict between Salem church and the rest of Massachusetts and then between the Salem church and Williams. Eventually the church dismissed Williams as their minister and the Massachusetts government banished Williams from the colony in January, 1636 (Massachusetts eventually rescinded Williams’s banishment – in 1936!).
Williams and a handful of followers founded Providence Plantation later in 1636 on land granted to them by the Narragansett sachems Canonicus and Miantonomi. The small band of Christians created a “compact” for self-government. Part of it read: we…submit ourselves in active and passive obedience to all such orders or agencies as shall be made for the public good of the body in an orderly way, by the major consent of the present inhabitants…only in civil things.
This compact is one of the first indications we have that Williams’s interpretation of the bible and godly authority had begun to change. To some extent, Williams new thinking was an extension of his separatist views. Williams desperately wanted to be part of a pure church, one founded by an ordained minister. So far, so good. But, as Williams theology evolved he came to believe that true ordination could only be passed down from Christ. At the same time, Williams believed that Constantine’s Edict of Milan in 313 had terminated the true church (under this interpretation, the Catholic Church was a false church) and true ordination. Thus, there could no true ministers, and therefore no pure churches.
Mainstream Puritans believed that their “purified” churches were true churches, planting Christ’s kingdom in the world, and that the cause of Christ’s kingdom could be advanced by harassing, or even making war on, ungodly weeds which threatened to overrun the kingdom. Williams, however, believed that God’s kingdom would only come when God sent new apostles (probably at the time of the millennium) into the world. In the interim, therefore, godly plants had no business harassing ungodly weeds. This would lead Williams to reject the idea that orthodoxy could be enforced by the state.
As Williams grappled with his evolving theology, he was also confronted with political problems. In 1643, Massachusetts Bay attempted to extend its authority over Providence. Williams set sail for London seeking an official charter for his settlement. This was granted to him in the form of a parliamentary Commission for Plantations in 1644 and he prepared to return to New England. But, before he set sail, he published one of the finest statements on religious toleration, The Bloudy Tenent of Persecution for Cause of Conscience. So radical was Bloudy Tenent that the English government ordered it burned.
While the pamphlet contained much of Williams’s new thinking on the church, it was his ideas on the intersection between the church and state which libertarians should celebrate. As with other Puritans, Williams believed that the coming of Christ to Earth had created a gulf, a division, between what had gone before and what came after. But, while most Christians believed that the non-ceremonial aspects of Old Testament law should still be enforced by the state, Williams argued there was no such thing as God’s political kingdom on earth and that no modern nation possessed God’s authority to enforce religious law. Williams argued that it was impossible that God would give civil government—made up of sinful people—authority over the church on issues of religious practice.
And then Williams made the point that should bring warmth to even cold, black, libertarian hearts. He argued that civil peace was not disrupted by religious dissent and debates over religion but by the use of state power to suppress dissent and debate. He wrote: the blood of so many hundred thousand soules of Protestants and Papists, spilt in the wars of present and former ages, for their respective consciences, is not required nor accepted by Jesus Christ the Prince of Peace…enforced uniformity [of religion] is the greatest occasion of civil war, ravishing of conscience, persecution of Christ Jesus in his servants, and of the hypocrisy and destruction of millions of souls.
Thus while Williams criticized Catholic Mary (r. 1553-1558), he also criticized Protestant Elizabeth (r. 1558-1603) for her persecution of Catholics. Williams did not even believe it was necessary that civil rulers be Christians. In a second work published in 1652—Bloudy Tenent Yet More Bloudy—he argued that Jews, Catholics, and Muslims could be good civil rulers.
To be clear, Williams was no anarchist, nor even a libertarian. He was after all, a man of the seventeenth century and firmly believed in the need for a civil government, as practiced in Rhode Island. But religious toleration continued to be adhered to (religious anarchy in the colony was further aided and abetted by the teachings of two other dissenters, John Clarke and Samuel Gorton). Baptists and Quakers, both banned from New England, settled in the colony. In 1658 a small Jewish congregation was formed in Newport and French Huguenots settled in East Greenwich in 1686. Rhode Island was certainly not a kingdom of religious peace. There were harsh words and harsh writings aimed at other religions. Both Gorton and Williams left/were kicked out of churches they founded. For many outside the colony, it seemed a place of lawlessness. As a Dutch Reformed minister in New Netherland wrote, Rhode Island was a place where all kinds of rabble live and which is nothing but the latrine of New England; all the bandits of New England retire thither. But, there were no arrests, violence, or punishment in religious matters. Without the civil power involved in running religion, there was no need for the civil power to arbitrate religion.
Tolerance also played out in other ways: in 1647, representatives from the four main towns in the colony agreed on laws banning witchcraft trials, imprisonment for debt, and removed capital punishment for many crimes. Rhode Island even passed a law banning slavery in 1652 although it was only enforced fitfully and then for no more than fifty years (although one of the earliest mainstream voices of abolition was that of Samuel Hopkins, Congregational minister in Newport, Rhode Island from 1770-1803).
The anecdote I began this piece with says it all. Williams believed Quakers were false prophets and heretics, guilty of all kinds of crimes against God’s truth. But the way to deal with heresy, even at 69, was to get in a boat and go to a public debate. It was most decidedly not to call down the power of the state on those with whom one disagreed.
Further Reading:
Full text of Bloudy Tenent
Barry, Roger Williams and the Creation of the American Soul (Viking, 2012).
Field, “Roger Williams, Parliament, and Providence,” New England Quarterly September, 2007.
Goodman, “Banishment, Jurisdiction, and Identity in Seventeenth Century New England,” Early American Studies, Spring, 2009.
Hall, Separating Church and State: Roger Williams and Religious Liberty (University of Illinois Press, 1998).
James, “Ecclesiastical Authority in the Land of Roger Williams,” New England Quarterly, September, 1984.
Lovejoy, “Roger Williams and George Fox: The Arrogance of Self-Righteousness,” New England Quarterly, June 1993.
What a difference four centuries make. Rhode Island used to be worth a shit.
And we can argue without having to row a whole damn day.
And you call that progress? Harrumph!
Are your strip-clubs full contact, big guy?
Do you really want to be in full contact with Rhode Island strippers?
Tenuously related: I’m reminded of the time I got bounced from a Rhode Island nightclub for wearing “seekahs”
“sneekahs”*
Were they on your feet, or . . . somewhere else?
He was probably wearing *only* sneekahs.
They were envious of my “Providence”
“Yo, performers use the back door, bub.”
Day shift or night shift?
he blood of so many hundred thousand soules of Protestants and Papists, spilt in the wars of present and former ages, for their respective consciences, is not required nor accepted by Jesus Christ the Prince of Peace…enforced uniformity [of religion] is the greatest occasion of civil war, ravishing of conscience, persecution of Christ Jesus in his servants, and of the hypocrisy and destruction of millions of souls.
/Ferrets away for the next time some ignoramus spouts off about ‘religion is to blame for wars’
Great article RN!!!
“But the way to deal with heresy, even at 69, was to get in a boat and go to a public debate. It was most decidedly not to call down the power of the state on those with whom one disagreed.”
The modern day puritans disagree.
“But if the state doesn’t pick, how do we know who won?”
The modern day Puritan couldn’t possibly paddle a canoe, much less engage in honest debate.
+1
AntiPro-Fa soy-boy.A little man in a boat and 69?
Are we talking religion here? Or something else?
Not sure, but the consensus was, still, broadly anti-papal.
Wait until they get a load of my nuns. They will be clamoring to join my church.
“Webpage blocked”
I’ll have to assume they’re flying nuns on strafing runs with tommy guns.
No. Not at all.
flying nuns on strafing runs with tommy guns.
+ 1 GIS
BTW, that scans very nicely.
One could make a habit out of visiting those nuns.
*narrows gaze*
The puritans of the day disagreed. See Witch Trials, Salem.
very nice reading . . . thanks
Williams set sail for London seeking an official charter for his settlement. This was granted to him in the form of a parliamentary Commission for Plantations in 1644 and he prepared to return to New England. But, before he set sail, he published one of the finest statements on religious toleration, The Bloudy Tenent of Persecution for Cause of Conscience. So radical was Bloudy Tenent that the English government ordered it burned. – why did the parliament grant him that? could anyone just ask?
To be clear, Williams was no anarchist, nor even a libertarian. He was after all, a man of the seventeenth century and firmly believed in the need for a civil government, as practiced in Rhode Island. – what was his view on the top tax rates or regulation?
To be hones all these flavors of heresy are confusing for an honest Orthodox
I tried to explain the differences between the Catholic Church and some of the more mainline protestant denominations to an Israeli once. His reaction was that of confusion and incredulity.
Protestantism even puts libertarianism to shame when it comes to internal divisions.
Well, look at the root of Protestantism. The base root which sprouted the myriad denominations was the assertion that the individual could read the scripture and reach their own conclusions without the mediation of the priesthood. So you’re going to get as many interpretations as there are readers. Some will find their views simiilar enough to bundle into a denomination. Some will not actually read it for themselves and instead be drawn into the circle of these new churches, but the root is an individualist perspective on the need for the catholic intermediary.
If my great-greats- were alive, they’d mark that the signs of an ideal Protestant sect are that it has no bureaucracy, no hierarchy, no fees, no creed, no catechism, no office building in Atlanta or mailing list, not even a website. I suspect many of my libertarian urges come from their movement.
If you have no creed, how can you lay claim to being a sect of Protestantism?
If a hillbilly professes the KJV in the hills and no one hears it, does he make a creed?
With the differing flavors of Judaism, you’d think he’d grok ‘doctrinal schism’.
I tried to make it analogous to the differences between reformed judaism, orthodox Judaism, Hasidism, etc but my limited understanding of the internal divisions of Judaism further complicated the discussion. Need to read more Tuesday Jewsday.
Karaite versus Rabbinic Judaism might be the analog ?
on that, with the new headgear in Congress rules, could one of the (((Glibs))) explain what the difference between a yarmukle and a kippah is, or is it just a (((shibboleth)) that lets people know what kind of -dim you are?
One is Yiddish and one is Hebrew. That’s all.
On a related note, the new rule excepts religious headgear from the ban, but doesn’t seem to require it be the headgear of the religion of the person wearing said hat. This seems like a loophole ripe for abuse, so I will pledge to donate to any Glib who officially runs for the House with the (secret or not) pledge to find and wear the most ridiculous religious headgear on the House floor.
Maybe this: https://www.cnet.com/news/flying-spaghetti-monster-pasta-colander/
Here’s hoping this little bit of pandering to the new female Muslim member of Congress, who is a notorious anti-Semite, backfires when the Jewish members of Congress show up in their yarmulks or kippahs or whatever. They are mostly Dems, true, who would never participate, but there’s enough Repubs that it ought to work.
I would laugh, out loud, if one of the so-cons showed up in a trucker hat that said “Christian” on it. Sounds like “religious headwear” to me.
@Raven Nation
The colander is a good idea, especially as it is easily obtainable, but if money is no object I’d prefer one of those ornate Aztec headdresses.
@R C Dean
Good idea: for even greater effect, make it one of those “Christians for Trump” trucker hats for a two-fer.
The main difference between Catholics and Baptists is that the Catholics say hello to each other at the liquor store.
Lol. Appropriating that.
Why should a Catholic never take two Baptists fishing?
They will criticize him for drinking beer.
Why should a Catholic never take one Baptist fishing?
He will drink all the beer.
What do you get when four Catholics gather together?
A fifth.
A breeding and drinking joke. I love it!
Well, one does lead to the other.
Which also works either way. Who would have thought the Catholics were this flexible. And I didn’t even get into the altar boy jokes.
That’s no joke. My brother used to live in Hope, Arkansas. The closest liquor store is in Texarkana just across the state line in Texas. He said every time he went there at least one person he recognized would break a leg trying to hide or run out of the store.
Funnily enough, yes. But you were more likely to get one if you had the financial backing to actually set up the colony, were actually there, or had political connections. If the French, Spanish or Dutch weren’t already living there, Parliment was apt to go “Sure, why not?”
Yep. Unlike the Spanish, the English crown didn’t really want to run colonies, they just wanted to tax (via tariffs) the products. So, sure, knock yourself out, run a colony. If ti works, money for us; if it doesn’t meh, this is a broad generalization but is the general gist, at least until the late 17th century.
Theocracy, autocracy, democracy, monarchy, plutocracy, oligarcy.
All different means to the same end.
oh what do you know you don’t even have a phd in intersectional theory
And then some libertarians prefer a minniearchy.
That’s just goofy.
Mickey: “Look Walt, I don’t want to leave her because she’s crazy, I want to leave her ’cause she’s fuckin’ Goofy!”
You Donald need to duck the question of which you prefer
*narrows gaze*
Growing up in PA, our social studies class in 4th grade was called “PA Studies” but it should have been called “Don’t Tread on Me or We Will Murder You on Christmas and then Drink Beer.” It heavily influenced my outlook on civics for the rest of my life.
I have a feeling that, if I was in 4th grade in RI, I would probably be on the news, and words like “AFT surround compound” would be scrolling across the screen.
The Chyron writer was another victim of the public education system.
I had one great history teacher in my public education. He was kind of an odd duck and most of the kids didn’t take him seriously. Looking back though he taught real history and not the public school cartoon version:
1) Slavery wasn’t the cause of the civil war
2) The Treaty of Versalles is what lead to WWII
3) FDR did lots of unconstitutional things during the new deal including trying to pack the courts
I’m grateful he had an influence on me.
I remember lurking on TOS through massive threads on slavery andn the civil war
My opinion. To be taken with a grain of salt.
Slavery was the driving force behind the southern states leaving the union and for.kng the CSA.
The war was about whether or not the southern states could secede or not.
I believe that is accurate. No matter what the reason for secession, there would have been a Civil War.
That kind of reflects much of Lincoln’s thinking: I’m going to war to force the south back into the union. But, by 1863, he had come to the understanding that, if he did force them back in but they still practiced slavery, then it would happen all over again.
But, by 1863, he had come to the understanding that, if he did force them back in but they still practiced slavery, then it would happen all over again.
Also he was a Republican (the party founded on abolition), the war was already turning in the Union’s favor (to the victor goes the spoils), and there was an election the following year. He would’ve tolerated slavery to preserve the Union, but once it’s been shattered, much blood spilled, and the North had the upper hand, such tolerance wasn’t necessary or sufficient to preserve it any longer.
He would’ve tolerated slavery to preserve the Union, but once it’s been shattered, much blood spilled, and the North had the upper hand, such tolerance wasn’t necessary or sufficient to preserve it any longer.
Principles.
A friend from Kentucky observes that if New York has seceded, no one would have cared.
I’m okay with that if it’s just the city. I’d very much like a border between upstate and downstate.
John Carpenter had a documentary about that.
I think I saw it. I’m not sure what the research station in Antarctica had to do with the political divide in the Empire State.
I miss the days when New England could decide to, not only sit out a war, but trade with the “enemy”.
@UCS
Have you ever seen Cuomo and the Thing in the same room?
Didn’t think so.
He did a good job of pounding into our heads that it was multifaceted. He really broke down the economics/trade dispute side of it as well. The South wanted free trade with England, the North wasn’t going to let that happen. The South saw that as being held in poverty and forced to buy higher priced goods.
The point being the nuanced and accurate version of history is infinitely better than the simplistic ‘Confederates=Nazis’ that most glom to today.
Slavery was the driving force behind the economy of the south. The threat of ending slavery was also the threat of crushing the southern economy. So, it was secede or die.
Turned out it was secede and die.
The South’s lack of willingness to work to unwind slavery most certainly put them in that situation.
The South is dead? Seems like they’re still around last I checked. Have been for a while too. They’ve got cities, farms, factories, even produced a few presidents since the war.
The South’s lack of willingness to work to unwind slavery most certainly put them in that situation.
This. A lot of the northern states abolished slavery on a very gradual basis, often merely taking the position of no new slaves (all new persons born free). It would’ve drastically changed their economy, but slowly, and less so than immediate emancipation + Sherman’s various marches.
Taxes, tariffs and trade, much like the war from 1775-83. Lincoln supported slavery and only didn’t want it in new territories because he wanted to limit the influence of the Democrat Party of the time. Back then they were the small-government party (except for support for government enforced slavery..). The Republicans were (and are) the party of mercantilism. But, either way, the federal gov’t was never granted the authority to prevent any state from leaving for any reason. Lincoln destroyed the voluntary union of the founders and enslaved everyone to the federal government.
VA initially voted to remain in union, but voted to secede after being called on to raise forces to invade the other states that had already seceded. And the average confederate citizen/soldier was not a slave-owner and not likely fighting to preserve the institution. A relatively small percentage of the populations of seceding states owned slaves. Some might call it the monied elite, which then, like now had a lot of political clout and were one reason why slavery was an issue concerning the conflict.
I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so.
As we all know, this is from his first inaugural address. I doubt but few SJW have read it.
I always suggest people read that. It is very illuminating, especially when compared to Jefferson Davis’s first inaugural.
“Just say ‘slavery’.”
Without checking, Apu’s citizenship quiz?
I’m stunned at some notions about Dred Scott and the Civil War:
* How is the USSC to decide a case other but by the Constitution and laws are at that instant?
* Where in the Constitution does it state that its amendment process is for the federal government to militarily engage disagreeable states?
It sounds like once rebellion were declared, they can jail/kill those supporting it as they feel required.
Also, if you have 20+hours to burn, profCJ did an amazing job with his history of the civil war podcasts.
I listened to them last year during hay season and I thought they were great.
I had no such instructor.
I did have teachers who taught me by their example that just because someone has the credentials, that doesn’t mean they know what they’re talking about.
Eh mate, cracker of a read. Good on ya, I’ll pass it to me mates.
Agreed.
I had never heard of Mr. William’s, but I imagine it took quite the fellow to stand up to state enforcement of religious practice in the 17th century.
The very idea of “Separation of Church and State” was alien at the time.
Good article!
*looks around*
This looks like an appropriate place.
Tuccille’s still got it.
TW:TOS
“Bumper crop”
Can Swiss narrow his gaze enough to reach TOS?
Gimme a moment…
*turns toward 2chili….NARROWS GAZE*
I don’t have a canoe, that’s why I don’t debate anyone.
There’s no good spot to land a canoe around my house.
So I argue here.
It’s called portage.
An effort no one is willing to put in to argue with me. Canoes are heavy. At least real ones.
which libertarians should celebrate
Don’t tell me what to do.
I put this at the end of the last thread after 11, so I’ll put it here. Free To Choose did a video on how American progs are wrong about Sweden, short video here, full video here.
Great info. Thanks.
And Anne Hutchinson wasn’t pardoned until 1987. That shit be male privilege, yo.
Good article, thank you.
I may be a lawyer, but I have some standards.
this just in: Escaped Jr the Chemist, He Who Did Not Escape, just finished his first semester of law school in the top 20% of his class.
Studying the laws of chemistry?
Bio tech patents in his future? (Does he have a PhD?)
What kind of chemist? Around these parts there are a bunch of single discipline amateur chemists running unlicensed labs who do pretty well for themselves until they run into trouble of a legal variety.
One of them getting a law degree would probably help their business model.
no PhD; oil and gas legacy: his namesake was a TCU geologist whose father was a tool saleman in the Woodford and the Permian
They’ll probably be happy to have a lawyer that can speak their language for once.
Namesake? Of Woodford Reserve?
“where all kinds of rabble live and which is nothing but the latrine of
New Englandthe internet; all the bandits ofNew Englandthe web retire thither”I think he meant glibertarians.com
Wait, I thought this was before the English gained control of New Amsterdam.
John Bolton can choke on a box of used dildos
Mr. Bolton, making a visit to Israel, told reporters that American forces would remain in Syria until the last remnants of the Islamic State were defeated and Turkey provided guarantees that it would not strike Kurdish forces allied with the United States. He and other top White House advisers have led a behind-the-scenes effort to slow Mr. Trump’s order and reassure allies, including Israel.
“War is the health of the State”
Hopefully Rand Paul still has Trump’s ear on this issue.
“He and other top White House advisers have led a behind-the-scenes effort to slow Mr. Trump’s order”
And people say that the “deep state” is made up by whacko conspiracy theorists.
something something I’ve been writing the episode since before this something something life steals from fiction something something.
January is Sex Trafficking awareness month
From my local newsrag’s opinion page:
Guy’s I think my daughter might be trafficked! OMG!
Slang that is hard for me to understand? check
Older boyfriend? check
repeated phone calls? check
online activity? check
unexplained tattoos? check (so gave herself a shitty pine tree tatoo on her ankle)
sexually provocative clothing? check
secrecy and vagueness regaring whereabouts? check
late nights check
She also calls me “Daddy”.
My mom was convinced I was on drugs as a teenager. I was surly, tiered all the time, and had reduced interest in school.
Same here. Only, she was right.
#metoo
Slang…Craigslist…vagueness…Late nights
I had no idea I was a sex-trafficking victim.
Sex traffiker, not -ing.
Forgive me if I’m wrong, but the typical kid that gets into sex trafficking doesn’t have parents that give a shit.
Wait, that’s not what the Lifetime movies say!
I thought they were kidnapped by sketchy Slavs while visiting Europe.
Sketchy slovs who get beat up by a 60 year old Ulsterman who somehow worked for the CIA at one point.
Slavs* derp
It’s also National Polka Month, coincidence?
So… you’re telling me that Frankie was trafficked?
I’m sure a lot of older men would have like to have a young Mollie B trafficked for them.
*looks at “Property of [Your Employer]” sticker on computer, regretfully passes on link*
It’s a Polka video, very SFW.
As long as it’s not one of those weird underground Czechoslovakian polka videos you’re probably safe.
“Older boyfriends or girlfriends”
I like definitions that guarantee that one person in every relationship is being Sexually exploited.
“This is the life! I went down to the track, to visit my friend John. He works in the stable. He was grooming a thoroughbred called Hoosier Daddy.”
*SWAT TEAM BREAKS IN*
Great article. I really enjoy niche history articles, especially those with some wider application (like this). Previously I had only ever heard of this dude as nothing more than the rebellious founder of Rhode Island (which he was), but this shows there was a lot more thought behind the whole thing.