“Everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die.”
~ Unknown
At least twice here at my home away from home someone has raised the prospect of the imminent death of someone close to the them and their concerns about what would follow. Since this is what I do for a living, I’m an attorney with a practice limited to probate and trust litigation, I thought a primer on what occurs after death may be helpful.
I’m licensed in California and haven’t practiced in any other state. I have had plenty of contact with attorneys in other states. What I discuss will occasionally have a different name in other states, but the substantive law seems to be pretty similar from one state to the next. Needless to say, if you are actually dealing with a problem then speak with a local attorney.
When You Know Death Is Imminent
A terminal cancer diagnosis, hospice placement, or dementia diagnosis (barring divine intervention) is a signal the end is coming. Depending on the condition, it may come fast or slow. If your parent is still mentally competent and has the wherewithal, putting an estate plan in place or reviewing the existing plan is a good idea. If that’s not the case, then now is not the time to prod Mom or Dad to put an estate plan in place or change the plan they have. Every state has laws of intestate succession if there is no plan. That’s gibberish for “since you didn’t put a plan in place, the government has one for you.” I know I’m supposed to hate government, and generally I do, but having the government impose a plan when the soon to be departed didn’t is far better than letting the family club each other bloody over the estate.
What you should do right now is find the estate plan, if there is one, and pertinent financial records. All of this assumes Mom or Dad want some help and are willing to cooperate. If they don’t then leave it alone. Interposing yourself when it’s unwanted is an excellent way to cause a lot of stress during an already stressful time. Want to cause a permanent rift with your parent or siblings? Keep trying to “help” when your help has been declined. People aware of their impending end can be prickly. Unless you think someone is trying to financially benefit themselves at your loved one’s expense, leave it alone if you’ve been told to stay out of it.
If Mom or Dad will share the estate plan then read the trust, will, and durable powers of attorney to find out who is in charge in the event of mental incapacity and upon death. If it’s you, then congratulations! You have an absolutely thankless road ahead. A local probate judge has a sardonic joke. “You know what’s the second worst job in the world? Serving as trustee. You know what’s the worst? Serving as co-trustee.” She’s right. Having two people in charge usually makes things worse.
If you are in charge then you will be amazed how everyone else in the family is suddenly an expert in medicine and finance while you are a bumbling oaf who doesn’t devote enough time, effort, or energy to the task at hand. My jaundiced view is based on the cases that come into my office. They represent the minority of families. There are in fact families that help and support each other. Let’s hope that describes yours. And it’s worth noting, if you don’t want the job or can’t handle it then decline it. You aren’t doing anyone any favors by taking a job you can’t or won’t do. That’s another lesson from the rightfully aggrieved siblings I have represented over the years.
If you are in charge in the event of death or incapacity, then scan a copy of the estate plan. You will likely need more than one copy to provide to various entities as you go along. You can be sure the hospital will lose the durable power of attorney for health care you gave them three times before and the bank will have misplaced the trust or certification of trust just before they give you the new account agreement to sign. If you aren’t in charge, then while Mom or Dad are alive it’s very unlikely you have a right to see the documents. Curious to know what you will inherit? Wait. When death comes all will be revealed. Until then it’s Mom or Dad’s money and is going to be used for them. At least it’s supposed to be but that’s a separate discussion.
Whether you are serving as trustee or attorney in fact/agent under a durable power of attorney, keep track of every penny you spend. Yes, I am being literal. Keep every bill, receipt, invoice, bank statement, cancelled check, etc. Expect to have to account for it later.
When Death Comes
Stephen Franklin: It’s all so brief, isn’t it? Typical human lifespan is almost a hundred years, but it’s barely a second compared to what’s out there. It wouldn’t be so bad if life didn’t take so long to figure out. Seems you just start to get it right and then…it’s over.
Ivanova: Doesn’t matter. If we lived 200 years we’d still be human, we’d still make the same mistakes.
Franklin: You’re a pessimist.
Ivanova: I’m Russian, doctor. We understand these things.
“Soul Hunter” Babylon 5
Dr. Steven Franklin and Lt. Commander Susan Ivanova
Whether you are in charge (i.e. trustee, executor, or administrator) or not. Grieve. The day after your parent has died is not the time to call the attorney. Depending on your family dynamics, religious beliefs (or lack thereof), family geography, and financial ability you will have to put some time into the disposition of your loved one’s remains and gathering family to do so. You may have rituals around grieving. Observe them if this is important to you.
If you don’t, then take a tip from (((this))) lawyer. Take some time to grieve. I don’t care who you are or what your relationship was. You have feelings you need to address or process. Was it a warm, close, loving relationship? Then you probably have stories to tell and to hear. There are tears to be shed and people to embrace. Unless a foreclosure sale for the family home has been set, then the financial stuff will wait. Was the relationship distant and cold? Your grieving is going to be different. Grieving may not even be the right word. You still have some feelings to address. Do it.
Getting Down To Business
“Money, money changes everything
I said money, money changes everything
We think we know what we’re doing
We don’t know a thing”
Tom Gray
“Money Changes Everything”
All that stuff you’ve seen in movies from the 1930s is garbage. (I’m looking at you Ted S.) The lawyer who drafted the will does not schedule a meeting with the entire family, there is no wood paneled room with a bunch of leather high back chairs, and there is no reading of the will. Depending on where you live, there is a good chance the will is irrelevant. Trusts have become the most common estate planning document in lots of places. The higher the cost of probate the more likely a trust was used to avoid the cost. A hat tip to Texas for making the costs and burdens of probate de minimus. If you are in Texas and there is a will your probate will move quickly. There are still good reasons to use a trust in there but I digress.
If the trustee, executor, or administrator, does his/her/xer job correctly then you will get a copy of the operative document in the mail. In the Golden State (*cough* bullshit *cough*) a trustee is required to mail out notice to the beneficiaries within sixty days of being informed of the settlor’s death. That notice identifies the trustee, provides their contact information, and tells the beneficiaries they have a right to request a copy of the trust. Most of the time a copy of the trust is mailed out with the notice making life easier for everyone involved. If it’s not, then make a written request to the trustee and/or the trustee’s attorney. This doesn’t mean sending a text or an email. Send a letter and keep a copy. It’s exhibit one to your petition to the probate court if the trustee doesn’t send you a copy of the trust.
If a will is the operative document, then the will must be deposited with the probate court for the county in which the decedent resided before their death and a petition for probate should be filed within 30 days if there is a need to open probate. Attached to the probate petition is a copy of the will (if there is one) and it gets served by mail on all the beneficiaries. Why do I keep saying executor or administrator? Are the overlords paying me by the word? By ZARDOZ, no. The person in charge of the estate when there is a will is the executor. The person in charge when there is no will is the administrator. Same position, same duties, same process, different name. I blame the British.
Whether you are dealing with a trust or a will, if it was written in the last few decades,then you shouldn’t find a lot of legalese in it unless it involves some significant tax planning or it was written by a kook (i.e. shitty attorney, paralegal with an inflated ego, or *shudder* a legal document preparer). If the document seems disjointed, contradictory, or otherwise incomprehensible for no good reason then I would check to see if Legal Zoom or Suze Orman’s horrible estate planning software is involved.
It’s usually easy enough to read the document to see who is nominated to serve as trustee or executor and how the estate will be distributed. If you really can’t tell, then get to an attorney. There may be a genuine problem that needs to be addressed sooner rather than later.
The large majority of the time the document itself is fine and anyone who can fog a mirror understands how this comes out in the end. What isn’t so obvious to anyone who isn’t in charge is what has to be done in order to get to distributing the estate.
Regardless of the document, creditors must be addressed. But you know Mom and Dad paid all their bills when they came in and had very simple finances. Great. Then things will go quicker if there is a trust. Oh, by the way, Mom and Dad may not have been entirely forthcoming with you. Credit cards are a form of debt even if they didn’t want to acknowledge it. They paid their bill every month… or so you thought. They paid the minimum and kept enjoying life as long as they were able. That final hospital stay that Medicare pays for… it didn’t pay the whole thing. Expect bills from the ambulance, hospital, and a slew of doctors to come in over the next few months. Surprisingly, mortgage holders don’t really care about the death. They expect to be paid. If they aren’t then they will go through the state specific foreclosure process.
What can the creditors get? It depends on whether the debt is secured or unsecured. If it is secured then the house, car, or boat is going back to the lender if the debt is unpaid. Assuming there is equity to be preserved but a cash shortage, then if anyone can pay until the asset is sold they should. The estate will repay them after it sells the asset and has cash on hand.
If the debt is unsecured then it depends on how title to the estate property was held at the time of death and what notice was given to creditors. If title was held by the trustee to the trust or solely in your parent’s name, then the trust or probate estate can be liable for the debts. If an account at a financial institution was held in joint tenancy, pay on death, or has a designated beneficiary, then it is going to that person. It doesn’t belong to the trust and it isn’t going through probate. A creditor can try to chase it but unless there is a lot of money at stake they won’t.
California has a very severe creditors claim process. In probate, the executor or administrator is responsible for sending a creditor claims notice to all known or suspected creditors. The creditor has sixty days in which to file their claim. Miss it by a day and they are out. No exceptions. The creditor gets nothing. There is an optional procedure trustees can use for the same purpose with the same effect.
If the creditor does file a claim then the trustee, executor, or administrator has to accept it, reject it, or partly accept it and partly reject it. If the claim is rejected in whole or in part then the creditor can file a civil lawsuit against the estate for the amount they claim is owed. If they don’t file within 90 days of getting the rejection of their claim, then they are barred from collecting.
At this point, all the property has been gathered and creditors have been paid. There is some net amount left in the estate. Presumably, there are still attorney’s fees to be paid (thank you state government) and the trustee, executor, or administrator also needs to be paid from the remaining estate. There are two ways to get to distribution. First, everyone who inherits can waive an account. Second, an account can be provided and is usually subject to court approval.
Whether to waive an account entirely depends on your level of trust and the transparency that’s been shown during the process. I commonly advise clients who have at least a half way decent relationship to send out copies of all the underlying financial records to the beneficiaries and ask them to waive an account. If they do waive then it speeds things up and saves everyone some money. If they won’t waive then the expense and delay is on them.
If there is going to be an account, then it only makes sense to petition the court for approval. It’s the only guaranteed way to cut off liability once it is approved.
With that done, the check is in the mail. When you get it, you may also be asked to sign a receipt. Attorneys who play it straight send out receipts that say exactly what you would expect. Please sign here to acknowledge receiving these items of tangible property and a check for $X. If that’s what you got, then sign the receipt.
That’s it. You’re done. Hopefully, everyone got along and the family relationships are no worse for wear.
I really appreciate Sloopy’s music links that somehow relate to the daily links. I’ll do my part to follow suit. This is more or less how I think about death.
Nice write up. Great advice. We completely redid our trust last fall, after the wife had been diagnosed. We wanted to get it done when she could still make decisions.
That was a smart move.
If the relationships are good (siblings that get along) going through the deceased’s house collecting/inventorying can be a cathartic experience. Spouse involvement can make things less amicable…
My gf used to get along with her sister, now after DeadAunt has passed and my gf is the executor, things have gone to defcon 2.
Her sister is nasty, and greedy. Those traits have come out fast and hard. Even worse, she’s trying to cause a rift between me and the gf. I know this cuz my gf tells me so. My lady is shrewd enough to recognize this and is not having any of it. #lucky
That’s why about 90% of my practice is probate litigation and trust litigation. The quote about money changing everything is absolutely true in my experience. If there was a crappy relationship to begin with then you expect all hell to break loose.
I’m the executrix for my mom. Neither of my brothers wants to touch it. One SIL would want to, but um…no. My other SIL would be even more scared of it than my brother.
What this means is that my husband will end up doing it. Everyone is totally okay with this.
I’m my parents executor, because I am ruthlessly efficient.
It’s the bath salts.
And totally unexpected, with an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope?
Geez…no glibs to back up SN of a Spanish Inquisition joke?
Sorry it’s 2.5 hours late, but:
+1 Comfy Chair. Or, +1 Cardinal Fang–take your pick
All that stuff you’ve seen in movies from the 1930s is garbage. (I’m looking at you Ted S.)
Woohoo! I get a hat-tip!
Lord knows you earned it.
Laughter in Paradise
Yeah… that never happens.
Next you’re going to tell me Brewster’s Millions isn’t a documentary.
Sit down buddy. We need to have a talk.
A convenience of having parents that have spent a combined 50 years of working in nursing homes between them is that all of this has been laid out ahead of time; the first time my parents went over their estate plans with me was when I was 10. They’ve been religious about keeping all of their plans up to date and making sure my sisters and I are fully informed. A bit morbid, perhaps, for some people but my family never cared to put on airs of normalcy. My parents have seen what happens when plans aren’t made or are made too late thousands of times, and they want no part of that. It’s caused some friction between my mother and my grandmother recently when she ignored your advice not to push estate planning, but with my grandfather no longer being of sound mind, but they patched it up.
P.S., fuck alzheimers
I’ll read this later. I don’t need a reminder of more things I have to take care of at the moment.
Mom and Dad are good to go. It’s just me and the wife I have to get done.
I should have said thanks for the article. So, thanks.
Hmmmmm…. appropriate to post tits on a post about death?
Discretion is the better part of valor.
PS: Good writeup about a difficult topic people rarely talk about.
I’m expecting your usual evening trifecta. If it’s been 30 minutes then you’re in the clear. Can I request athletic/fitness types tonight?
My man!
What do you have in the buxom up to just-this-side-of-zaftig area? I’m thinking like Christina Hendricks, Jennifer Tilly neighborhood.
What a queermo question.
Corpse titties, Q.
Corpse titties.
I’m just glad you didn’t post photos.
I am reading “We”. So far I prefer it to Tristan Shandy.
Well, one is dystopian fiction and one is the first comedic novel in English, so…..
So we’ve established I prefer the darker side of life. I’m sure that’s of no surprise.
Thanks for the article. I was considering doing a trust for my estate. What is a reasonable price range?
You are in a very competitive market for estate planning attorneys. If your needs are straightforward then a complete estate plan will likely run $1,000-$1,200. If you need a more sophisticated plan then expect it to go up from there.
I should mention, a trust alone is not a complete estate plan. You still need a will in case some property is not titled in your trust and you need powers of attorney for financial and health care decision making. Health care gets a little weird from state to state. You may need a state specific document in addition to the power of attorney.
The attorney we met with did a planning package. Power of attorney, living trust and will. They wanted $3400. I didn’t know if that is standard/high/low
FM that sounds high unless there is something unusual you have to address like special needs planning, estate tax planning, or some business planning (like an LLC) is being incorporated into your estate plan.
In CA there are low rent attorneys who will do a complete plan for under $1,000. There are plenty of attorneys putting on seminars that charge $1,500-$2,000 for a straightforward plan. Somewhat higher end attorneys charge $2,000-$3,000. This all assumes you don’t need more sophisticated planning.
Thanks! Great article
Would you comment on those states that do not have forced separation between medical and financial guardians? I think Florida is one of those.
I don’t know enough to tell you anything intelligent or accurate. This is a good reason to go to local counsel rather than doing a plan online. If FL has some statutory scheme that permits or requires a unified document that’s important to know. If state law requires or permits any “add on” documents then local counsel should be able to tell you.
For example, in CA our durable power of attorney for health care is called an advance health care directive. You would think an AHCD is all you need to address health care decision making if you are incapacitated. That’s largely, but not entirely, true. You can have a clause that nominates a conservator of the person should that become necessary. It’s improbable because you have done your planning but it’s not impossible. Our genius state legislature added a POLST. This is supposed to be a document that can be filled out in the hospital or other medical setting that kind of sort of give decision making to another person but isn’t as complete as an AHCD. It’s unclear which takes precedence so I’m sure some unfortunate soul will become a test case. This is my long winded way of telling to talk with an attorney that knows what they are doing so you can plan for various contingencies in the manner required or permitted by state law.
In Idaho, we don’t require separate guardians. I have POA for medical, and financial decisions. We also have AHCD.
How good is the quality of the documents you see coming out of wills clinics? I volunteer at a wills clinic on occasion, but it’s well outside my wheelhouse, so I don’t know whether I’m churning out useless junk or enforceable wills.
There is a probate litigation attorney in your area thanking you. In CA a will can be admitted to probate as long as it meets the minimal requirements for wills. When a vague or incomplete will is admitted to probate it is an opportunity to litigate an ambiguity, overlooked property, the application of intestacy provisions, etc.
Having snarked off, these clinics are valuable for people of modest means. They usually want peace of mind knowing their modest estate will go to the people they choose on the terms they state. If the estate is in fact modest then it will. It makes no financial sense to litigate a small estate.
I don’t practice in probate, but I get asked. My consultation consist of me repeatedly warning the client that I don’t practice in the area and don’t stay on top of changes to the laws. The last will I was asked to prepare the client looked at me after my spiel and said I have a paid off house, a daughter, and enough in my checking account to pay you, that is all. Can you handle that!
So we did a TOD affidavit for the house, and a will just in case, leaving ‘everything’ to the daughter. Things go beyond that and I’m referring you out. I like my mistakes to be fixable.
This wasn’t my proudest wank.
Beautiful. That’s gotta be one of your top ten, Bravo.
STOP TROLLING ME
I thought I was negging.
SHUT UP IM NOT THAT FAT
XXX
I salute you!
Also, a good read Chafed. ?
Thanks.
Thank you for the article. I will digest it later.
For now, a DPOA and AD for healthcare was the best my mom and I could do pre-surgery tomorrow.
In a previous life, I was a medical transcriptionist and did a palliative care account. Those people do God’s work.
Those who make palliative care better and more available are indeed doing great work. I’m suspicious of charities (and a cynical son of a bitch in general,) but I do give to hospice organizations when I’m flush (in fact, giving to hospices is ~all of my charitable giving,) because I can see the good they do. Dying looks hard to me.
I’m suspicious of charities-
Me too. ?
Excellent article about a difficult subject.
My great-grandfather was known for being something of a difficult person to get along with. He and I did just fine since I was the youngest of the line (I’m the fourth with my name, he being the first) and the whole old people little kid thing, and he and my father got along like gangbusters, but he and his son (my grandfather) had some tension. It wasn’t that he was a curmudgeon so much as he genuinely loved to fuck with people, even and especially his children. So, none of his three children were on speaking terms by the time of his death. What’s he do? Makes all three executors of his estate. Some people might have done this in the misguided belief that it was to force them to come together one last time, but everyone who knew him knew that this was not Grandy’s way. The kicker was that my grandfather’s brother wasn’t very motivated and his sister’s* second husband was filthy, stinkin’ rich and so she couldn’t be bothered to deal with her brother long enough to settle it. It didn’t get settled until after my grandfather’s death, so we’re talking about 24 years.
*At the risk of doxxing myself (which I’ve already done several times on this site) her son is Stephen Gaghan, who would be my first cousin once removed. I’ve never met him, but my dad used to hang out with him from time to time. One of my aunts tells a story of when they all went down for a funeral my dad and he rented a motel room, filled the bathtub with ice and beer, and had a three-day blowout.
Is that not normal?
The funeral was more the wine and cocktail crowd, whereas the cousins were doing more of a Busch and ganja type of thing. This was in the late seventies, I believe. My dad’s side of the family is more of a whiskey and soda at the 19th Hole type of crowd. Which is ironic, because my dad was more of a Jim Beam and Marlboros at the pool hall type of guy.
Re: doxxing
You’ve linked your resume…
You might want to review.
Especially considering his appreciation for racial slurs.
Yeah, I’m kidding about the doxxing. A few years ago I decided that I wasn’t going to post things on the Internet or anywhere else that I wouldn’t stand by personally, so I put my real name with my various Internet presences. And narrowed those down to ones I actually care about using. Anybody who wants to can find my house and knock on my door. I mean, don’t though, because my dogs will go nuts. Call first.
OT: Chelsea Clinton calls Donald Trump ‘the greatest scam in American political history’ as she doubles down on her indictment of the president during an explosive appearance on The View with mom Hillary
Slayyyyyyyyyyyyyy queeeeeeeeeeeeeeennnnnnn
Dear Edit Faery,
If you are out there, can you change Texas in the following quote into a link? ” If you are in Texas [https://youtu.be/RG69PMDBfaE] and there is a will your probate will move quickly.”
Your Humble Servant,
Chafed
Well, I’m in Texas, and I didn’t “need” the embedded link. Copy/click worked just fine, ya magnificent bastard!
Sorry I missed that. Fixed now.
That is some powerful hoodoo, there, SP.
Thanks SP.
Clint Eastwood’s ‘Richard Jewell’ explores FBI, media wrongdoing after 1996 Olympic bombing
THE RIGHT KEEPS ATTACKING THE MEDIA!
Why all the whistle-blower films now? Movies understand the moment
It never occurred to me either. My God.
Ok, so where are all the chick bank robbers and giant prehistoric sharks? Hmmm?
In office.
Franklin: You’re a pessimist.
Ivanova: I’m Russian, doctor. We understand these things.
Fuckin’-A!!
Babylon 5 for the win!
Someone wake Nephilium. I found a way to shoehorn in a Babylon 5 quote for him.
B5 with their cynical approach to government and propaganda, and VERY foreign interference, appeals to quite a few of us Glibs.
Ivanova is my spirit guide. I follow Claudia Christian’s FB page to this day.
*swoon*
Claudia is great with her fan base. Interacts with them (us?) on FB all the time and is very frank about her struggles with alcoholism and how she overcame it.
She and Patricia Talman (red haired psychic chick on B5) are real life besties and host nerd cruises and things.
No kidding? That’s very unusual. Good for her.
Is there any type of B5 convention around San Diego?
Oohh…that IS a good question!
Also–My MAN! You made me very proud with all the references, IYKWIMAITYD.
Wait…you wrote it. Of course you do!
Go on…
““Everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die.”
Prop me up beside the jukebox when I die
Lord, I want to go to heaven,
But I don’t wanna go tonight.
You gotta believe if you want to get in
No, you gotta raise a little hell!
@Naptown Bill
Regarding the previous thread, you said, “I just want to point this out before the site loses another person to a walkout.”
I won’t walk out. My last disappearance was because I was writing a book and that was ALL I was doing.
I also don’t flounce out of places. It serves no purpose whatsoever. Once I’m done with a place, I just ghost.
But I like you weirdos too much to leave here and I’m relatively thick-skinned and I “know” most of you well enough to know most of everything is good-natured.
I thought Naptown Bill was making a joke.
*embarrassed flush*
Oh. Well, in that case…standard disclaimer “Not sure if serious.”
I like to keep it ambiguous, just in case I need to retcon that shit later on.
Aww…
We like you too.
?
Yeah, but that one guy…
*smashes beer bottle*
You got something to say!
I was talking about Mike S. But, don’t tell him.
Hi everybody! What are we talking about?
LOL!
I bought a $14 bottle of Old Overholt at the same time as the New Riff. I’ll be damned if that isn’t some pretty decent whiskey.
Look for Rittenhouse Rye.
Are you nuts? That costs $19!
Yeah, I have a bottle of that, too. Not sure which one I like better. Maybe I need to do a scientific taste study tomorrow.
Who did we lose (recently) to a walkout?
LH and presumably EF.
I was thinking about that and I remembered EF recently changed jobs and more household responsibilities fell on LH, so I’m sure he had a lot of extra stress. He probably saw this place as an escape from his daily problems and was overly sensitive. I hope he comes back after he cools off or life settles.
I hope so too. I really liked them.
A great big “hell yes” to that. I really hope they come back.
Me too.
Maybe there’s a Glib out there that doesn’t feel that way, but i don’t think I’ve seen it so far.
Really!?! I saw the dust up. I knew LH was mad but I didn’t realize he was walk away mad. Maybe I bailed out before it was over.
I actually meant DNT, believe it or not. I figured that, no offense to him/her/it, you’re made of sterner stuff.
I was, in a weird way, very lucky when my mother died. Her estate consisted of a Kindle and a ’70s or early ’80s Vitamix (I got those, and still use the blender) and a Sony laptop (my sister got that- she got the better deal, I think, but she needed a laptop.)
I tried to get the local crematorium to give me the vagrant rate (I mean, it was on their price-list, and didn’t seem very different from any other option, but was apparently reserved for the indigent) but they eventually shamed me into paying for the entry-level not-a-vagrant option. I still kind of regret not having held out for the vagrant rate, tbh, but my Mom had just died and I was in no condition to fight over it. My Mom had an insurance policy that paid $2000.00 expressly for the purpose of cremation and my uncle also sent us $2000.00 to help defray the costs, so… I actually wound up with some money left over that I offered to return to my uncle. He asked me to keep it, so I bought a computer with it.
I have friends who are heirs to fortunes, some moderate, some not that moderate. I have to admit that to some degree I envy them their inheritances, but I do not envy them the complications they inherited. I loved my mother a great deal, and I’m glad that she left very little behind her that needed to be cleaned up. Her life reminds me of a lesson I learned doing carpentry as a young man- you come in, you make a mess, you clean it up before you leave.
That’s what they count on.
Yeah- the thing is that I suppose I was asking for something unreasonable. That is, their vagrant rate, because apparently dead bodies with no one to claim them turn up pretty regularly in that area. Who the vagrant rate is targeted at is a bit of a mystery to me, but…
The advantage to having started from asking for the vagrant rate with that guy is that he didn’t try very hard to sell me anything more expensive than the basic “set this bitch on fire” package after that. It’s kind of hard to say “If you really loved your Mom you’d have her cremated in an expensive casket” to someone whose opening bid was “can we have her cremated like a bum found dead under an overpass?”
FWIW we have our bodies scheduled to be donated to science, may be some shipping and handling costs involved, I dunno. My parents are buried near here, no one, except me, ever visits and I don’t go very often. No grand children, no great grandchildren, nada, ever visits and for that reason my wife and I opted for no services, no cemetery, etc.
Every organization seeking cadavers, that I know of, pays all costs of transporting the body. I would be surprised if whoever you chose doesn’t do the same.
Same here. And she was pretty explicit about it.
My Mom was too.
Great article. I love informative pieces which deal with common life experiences that are rarely broached.
My grandmother was deemed incompetent by the state and had probate filed on her. The conservator lawyers were sneaky AF and made sure I received the notice too late to act. I snapped into “No you fucking don’t, you evil state bastards!” mode and attempted to undo it. I had been estranged from her for 20 years or so, mainly because she’s a horrible person. Getting involved meant having to be around her increasingly often. I reached a point where I reacquainted myself with the reasons for our estrangement and chose to return to it. Before I did, I learned that being executor of a living persons trust is a very time consuming and intense job. The hurdles are immense. Likely, a voluntary situation is much easier, as I had to try to unravel a probate that was already (however fraudulently,) in effect. I might have been willing to see it through if it had been consensual, but I was unwilling to deal with my grandmother long enough to unravel the existing probate.
So, my point is, DO NOT LET the government take conservatorship over a family member. It’s extremely difficult to undo. There are constant hard deadlines and b.s. rules and the people who make money doing this are way better at it than you or I. If I had received notice BEFORE the deadline, I’d likely have been stuck taking care of it, but at least I’d have had the choice. Wresting control away from the state appointed conservator was going to be herculean. Anyway, IANAL, but that’s my story and I’m sticking to it.
Thanks Chafed, for a timely article. I copied and forwarded it to the trust administrators, I’m guessing they will copy/print it out. I liked your instructions to the admins, way better than I could do.
While today Mrs Fourscore and I are enjoying good health we could easily have a Bernie event (I don’t mean we’d go D )but the Golden Age Virus doesn’t seem to care about the opinions of old people.
We did a trust and decided not to have my kids as trustees, they don’t always agree with one another and money can cause problems between siblings. For that reason we have my wife’s niece to do the admin. We have a not large estate but decided to parcel out the benefits over time, rather than lump sum, both my kids are not accustomed to having more than 1 paycheck in their pockets at a time and they are not young either, into their 50s. While they are optimistic that Dad and ‘Mom’ will live forever we are already into uncharted waters, chronologically speaking.
We did pay more than your estimate though, somewhere in excess of 3K for the service. Well worth it though because we got to call the shots. Like many people we procrastinated for years, until reality set in. We have our medical wills, wife has her will for some personal affects to be distributed. When the day comes I ‘ll know we’ve done our part to try to make the transition easy for the survivors.
Thanks again for the free info, best priced advice I ever got from an attorney. Most helpful as well.
It’s worth every penny you paid for it.
My mother is still mostly with it mentally but that is sliding, and Dad is already in the VA memory care joint.
Attorney brother is doing a good job of the legal end of things, and sister is helping Mom by picking up her Walmart grocery orders. Bro has power of attorney, and that is fine with me. In fact, he’s also the executor of my will too. But yeah, it’s never too early to prep for a sudden or slow decline.
My husband avoided the sibling squabbles over his Mom’s estate by just saying “Look, all I want are the family photos.” His sister and sister in law put colored dot stickers on the backs of furniture and such to CLAIM them while she was still at home alive!
Thanks for the reminder to straighten everything out while you are still in control of yourself.
Fun fact: Pro Football player Joe Washington visited Dad’s VA hospital recently and asked my Bro for permission to sign Dad’s Washington Redskins jacket.
Dad knew who he was and the photos show he was having a great time.
She wanted someone else’s furniture that badly? That’s ice cold right there.
His sister and sister in law put colored dot stickers on the backs of furniture and such to CLAIM them while she was still at home alive!
All my wife’s grandmother’s things are claimed, too. That family has a tradition of the great granny giveaway when the matriarch of the family dies. The family all come with trailers in tow from across the region to get what they claimed. If you’re late, your claim probably will have disappeared.
Me, I think its a bit nutty. It’s just antique furniture.
It’s especially odd nowadays that pretty much everybody under 40 has no interest in the family china or silverware.
I get it in the sense that there are pieces that are 5 generations old. We have a cabinet in our dining room that was built by my wife’s great-great grandfather. Her grandmother has also frequented the flea markets for years, so the furniture is all old and high quality.
That said, the entire family is highly manipulative and often use the furniture in their manipulations, so there’s a tinge of dysfunction and obsession.
I have a bit of the family silver left- much of it was destroyed in a fire.
A similar full set of the silver of a close branch of my family is in other private hands and was on sale on the internet for something like 20k the last time I looked.
I like the few pieces I have left. They have been in the family for a long time, and have survived fire, calamity, and flood.
My mom’s 75 and has no interest in her mother’s china. She’s storing it in my garage, but we’re going to be moving so I said, “Uh, yeah, about that china–”
“Sell it.”
Um. Okay then.
Yup! We gave ours (from his family) to a young couple who also got my 2000 Ford Expedition and a few other items. They were thrilled!!
It’s a win-win.
When I first got married, my MIL was downsizing and said, “Hey, do you want my Christmas Spode?”
“No. Oh no. No, no, no.”
“Hm. Nobody wants china anymore.”
You know, a friend of mine’s wife just got their second china cabinet. I was talking about it with my wife and she was like, “Do we even have china? Who can be bothered with china?” And I was like, “Why would a guy who just stopped buying Affliction t-shirts and a chick who owns and uses a Snuggie have two cabinets’ worth of china?”
It’s a shame because I like the idea of it, but realistically that’s a tradition that’s going to be gone by the time my daughter’s an adult.
China of future generations will just be the collector set of (insert pop culture reference) dishware that is a collectors item. Like me being a single man in his mid-30s, I have a collectors set of Star Trek glasses my brother gave me as a gift. Unboxed, of course, and on display.
We are much wealthier in real terms (what an hour of our time will earn us in goods) than prior generations. That china and silver that we are cavalier about represented a comparatively enormous investment in terms of amount of work needed to acquire it.
I love Christmas Spode! Or at least when it wasn’t made in China.
Unfortunately it takes up a lot of space for only a limited time of the year. Right now it’s in the storage locker. With a bunch of other stuff.
OK, that’s a new one on me–had to look it up.
Ya, I thought spode involved rum and watermelon.
I hear stories like this and I am deeply thankful for how easily my brothers and I worked things out after my Mom passed.
The same with my folks. Mom left enough in a safety deposit box for her funeral, with my brother as the alternate. Two bros and I went to the bank, 1 got the money, we went to the funeral home, I haggled on the casket, got the cheapest, had $60 left over. Bro asked what to do with it, my other brother and I told him to take his wife out to dinner (circa 1990). Because she had no assets there was no turmoil.
My family just waits until the funeral to start fighting over the scraps.
So his family were circling vultures, but yours is more the hyena pack type?
Note to vultures/hyenas:
It.Is.Just.Stuff.
I guess I’m lucky. My family is drama free.
Mine has drama, but not when the chips are down. We pull together when bad things happen. Of course we basically have no contact with the extended family (anything beyond my Dad, my bothers and their kids), which helps.
From my own family experiences and those I’ve observed: it’s not about the stuff. It’s never about the stuff.
A relative of mine died four years ago or so. I wanted nothing to do with this relative or her family. Total psychos. Relative’s sister contacts one of my brothers last month. “After paying her debts, there is some money left. She wanted to leave you and your siblings some money. The inheritance tax is already paid, so we will send you a lump sum to divide among your siblings.”
Fucking great. Not only are the pyschos from that family trying to contact me, but my own psycho sisters are pulling drama already. “We deserve more!” It’s absolutely disgusting, so when my my brother asked me what I wanted to do, my answer was, “Nothing. I don’t want anything.” All this over 5K each. Tiny price to pay to not have to deal with the people involved. *My brother excepted. He’s cool.
FWIW, there is very good chance you don’t have to do anything to get your inheritance. People bitch all the time and make life miserable for anyone who will listen. That is different from filing the appropriate lawsuit. I’ll bet dollars to doughnuts your sisters will screech but they won’t file. The executor or trustee should send you your inheritance without you lifting a finger. Don’t sign a waiver, disclaimer, or any other document giving away your share. Unless your sister’s live in Japan, they’ll shut up once the money has been sent out.
Brings up the question; Is it stupid not to take money from someone who you really, really didn’t like? If we were talking millions, I bet I’d be singing a different tune. 5k and this is an easy one to walk away from.
Your choice. Sitting on your ass getting handed cash doesn’t seem like that tough a gig.
This is why I asked. Your advice makes sense.
There’s always at least one. My grandma I mentioned above kept trying to lure with that. I was trying to help her out of principle, but she doesn’t understand why anyone would think that way.
I did the same when my mom passed. Some relatives were fighting over the small estate and I wanted nothing to do with it.
You’d think cutting them off and moving to the other side of the planet would be a big enough hint that I want nothing to do with them. Chafed advice seems like the best way to handle it.
I just made my way through the PM lynx, which was mildly depressing with you grumpy fucks (though I did learn what ‘Ontology’ means). And then come here and its not much better.
Sign in, please.
Excuse you. I am not grumpy. I am BITCHY.
It’s 2019. Identify however you like.
I missed the entire PM lynx. And it’s too late to go back through it.
We’re not missing any more people are we?
I was in a good chunk of the links, and i didn’t see anything.
Not that I know of.
Well, I’m not here, anymore. But I’m sure you were taking about important people.
Don’t call me grumpy! Glad someone learned what it means, I thought I was droning on just to hear myself talk as usual. Next up we will discuss the ontological proof for the existence of God!
I had to look up ontological. But because the definition seemed so simple, and it wasn’t being used in a simple manner, I thought I was missing something.
Then you posted and I’m like, “Oh, whew. I didn’t misunderstand.”
But because the definition seemed so simple
I feel a disturbance in the force as though millions of theses cried out and were silenced.
Very often, people say things that don’t make sense to me. I assume it’s me. So I find the dictionary and parse and unpack.
Post title on soc.academia.romancenovels: “Please help me refine my thesis. 500 words”
My summation of thesis: “Water is wet.”
Me: “No, that can’t be it. It’s too simple. Who would take 500 words to say ‘water is wet’?”
So I sit there like a dumbass re-reading and unpacking, trying to find out what the author is REALLY trying to say, while a whole bunch of other people are unpacking using four times the words and I’m still having a brain fart because I cannot believe anybody would take 500 words to say “water is wet,” so therefore, the problem is I’m stupid and then I go have a fruit Tootsie roll.
What do you mean by wet? What do you mean by water? What do you mean by “is”? That last question actually dumps you into a rabbit hole of Carrolian proportions, and probably lights the HM signal. No chance you could cover “water is wet” in 500 words as a Doctoral candidate in Philosophy. Maybe in physics.
It’s all about stylistics. I went to grad school with someone who practiced public health dentistry for years before changing careers. The beginning classes were maddening for him because he had been trained to write in the most concise way possible. Academic style is concise as it tries to pack as much information as possible per phrase, but it requires complex grammatical structures, like verb nominalization, as well as at the level of stylistics academic “hedging”.
Marginally related: 400-level poetry class. 4-question essay test, 25pts per question. Now, I excel at essays, so I didn’t even prepare.
One page, handwritten, front and back. 1 paragraph each question. Took me 20 minutes. Handed in my paper and walked out. Since everybody else was writing reams and reams and reams, I figured I dun fucked up, but I had nothing else to say.
Next class period, the professor was LIVID. He was ranting about all these papers–and he had a ream of paper in his hand–being exactly what he DIDN’T want and DON’T YOU PEOPLE KNOW HOW TO WRITE AN ESSAY YOU’RE SENIORS FOR FUCK SAKE!
“Only ONE person passed this test and did it with 100%. ONE! Only ONE!”
Well, now I’m curious but I had to endure for another long tirade, and he starts passing them out. I mean, people wrote 5-, 6-, 7-page papers, front and back. WTF can you say about four little questions about four little poems? And how do you do it in 50 minutes? For SURE I was a dumbass.
My paper’s last. He says, “Mojeaux, I want you to teach the class how to write an essay test.”
Oh. Well, then. “Like, right now?”
“Right now.”
“Challenge accepted.”
It’s worthwhile to ask these questions, in some contexts, but:.
A koan, answered: If I randomly dumped a bucket of water on you on a cold day you’d be within your rights to smack me in the mouth in return. If I complained about that smacking I suppose you might counter with “what is a smack? what is a mouth?” In which case I would definitely smack you in the mouth back, and at that moment you would become enlightened.
I joke about it because I will always regret my decision to have food and clothing by going the JD route not the PhD, but in all seriousness when you are working in the realm of Ontology, you really do need to be somewhat long winded trying to actually communicate the very precise shade of meaning that your argument is based upon. Too much concision and you leave ambiguity. Or perhaps the ambiguity is inescapable. The thought in my head may never be the same thought as that in yours, no matter how carefully I choose my words, or you yours.
KATZ!
May? Always. Each individual mind consists of a unique web of associations. Even if we have the same concept in mind, the associations that formulate that concept will be different.
Related in my mind because of my unique web of associations:
There is a saying that once the book you wrote is published, it is no longer your book. It belongs to each individual reader, and it becomes a unique book with each individual reader because of the baggage a reader brings to it.
Tell that to the RIAA.
I think on some level that is true. But we do communicate, and even communicate some very subjective thoughts effectively. At the end of the day it is a lot of fun worrying at the bone of meaning, but the meat mostly gets where it was intended.
See, this is what happens when you think “words have meanings” rather than “meanings have words”.
There are occasionally good reasons to take 500 words to say that “water is wet.” Unfortunately there are more occasions to do so than there are good reasons to do so. Distinguishing the cases in which it is useful to do so from those in which it is not is the dilemma. One question you might ask, in separating the wheat from the chaff, is “is this rigorous?”
So, can we refer to this as a “dead” thread even though we’re still posting?
~groan~
That’s it; I’m writing you out of the will!!
Mom died a little over a year ago. My brother got the house. I got most of the fungible assets. He has a family, I don’t. Seemed a fair split. We still talk a couple times a month. Good guy (mostly).
Wait…you’re are a lawyer?! Damn, I thought we could be friends.
You think lawyers don’t hate lawyers?
ORLY?
The shit has hit the fan.
Now that’s a great song.
Agree 100%
There is a thin line
First you tell me there’s no houses for sale in NoDak for (((people))) like me and now this. I gave you a WASP link, A Pale Horse Named Death link, and a Babylon 5 quote. What does guy have to do to get a little respect?
And I gave you an AC/DC link in the comments. You.Heartless.Bastard.
(Heart bleeds for Chafed)
Cast not your pearls before swine…and that includes impudent piglets!
(Bonus points if you can place that quote)
Bon Scott; Whole Lotta Rosie
Drill sgt. at the police academy?
Pooh.
Famous Dave.
NIMH, is it?
Mrs.
FrisbeeBrisbyYes.
Ha-HA!! Yes! Yes!
Also starting points for two really terrific actors: Wil Wheaton and Shannon Doherty!
Dude, you know I love ya’!
All is forgiven.
Wait, I thought I told you to move here but you said (((people like you))) don’t like the cold?
(((People))) like us have had bad experiences in cold flat places full of depressed alcoholics.
Nostrovya!
(Nothing personal)
This page isn’t that bad.
You are now in the Czar’s army Kulak!
Who are you calling depressed!?!?!
Are you finished with your chart of accounts? Does your general ledger balance?
Benjamins
Good Vibes Receivable
MikeS; Capital
MikeS; Drawing
Mad Money Earned
Beer Expense
Rye Expense
Negative. You jokingly said there were no houses for sale when (((my))) religion came up.
That does sound like me.
Christ, what an asshole!
?
I was just looking for inspiration from old CL joke posts I made (largely while under the influence of a lot of a lot of things), and came across this gem:
ate:2013-09-23 08:44:37
PostID:4085674378
Title:(men seeking women) I live for CRAZY BROADS!
I have decided to combine the two great loves of my life-enjoying my financial fortunes and lubelessly buttfucking girls with low self-esteem. That’s right, at the same time I watch my well-planned portfolio expand and grow, you will be helping me achieve my lifelong dream of cornholing girls whose daddies never were around or whose mothers are overbearing perfectionists or maybe they are fresh out of an abusive relationship or maybe, just maybe they have a genuine psychological disorder I can exploit. Who cares really?
The point is, I have a knack for finding idiot, bipolarish chicks who are desperate for love/acceptance/self-esteem/attention and who may not like it in their browneye, but for whatever reason will take it there.
Dreams don’t have to make sense.
To make this happen here’s what you need to do: just drop me a line. See my email address, click on the button above, and get in contact with me. I pretend its really a joke but say “Hey wouldn’t it be funny if it really did work though and I ended up fucking your ass?”, and laugh again, pretending that that joke was a joke, but not really.
We continue to exchange emails during which time I find your weakness (stupid, ugly/fat, you think you’ll never get married, you can’t get over that abortion you had when you were 17–again, who cares as long as I find it) and I use it to destroy what self-esteem you have.
Finally, I’ll tell you what you want to hear–everything is great and will be better. You’re smart, attractive, any guy would love to make you his wife, that aborted baby is having fun in heaven playing with Eric Clapton’s kid, your whites will get whiter, your brights will get brighter and happiness will be had by all–if only you let me pound you in the pooper.
Then when I am done, I wipe my dick in your hair, tell you its not working out because you’re not fat enough, steal every clock in your house and flush all your silverware–just to fuck with your mind even more. I’m not saying its right, its just what I do. Some people like big tits, some people like drinking hermaphrodite asian pee, some priests like gang banging little kids, my buddy Tim once got busy in a Burger King bathroom in Englewood. Ewwwww.
HMU.
Well, how many takers?
Flagged almost immediately.
When I was trying to legit give away apples, so was this one:
Tres Cool
Aug 25, 2013, 3:40 PM
to no
Sadly, some d-bag flagged my most recent ad in about 10 minutes. The bitch is that I really want to get rid of these stupid apples….
CLdaytonfor sale / wantedfree stuff
craigslist reply address will appear here
Posted: 2013-08-24, 6:55PM EDT
Apples? OMG! OMG! O…M….G! (xxxxxxxx)
image 1image 2image 3
And to the spineless nutsack what flagged my earlier post….eat me. I gots mad apples for real, yo. Molon Labe, you weak bish….NOW:
I know it sounds too good to be true, but yes Gentle Reader, you read that correctly: FREE APPLES! If an apple a day keeps the doctor away, pick my tree clean and you’ll be healthy for a year. When people talk about your kick-ass apple-enhanced immune system, they’ll say “see that horse over there? That horse is as healthy as (insert your name here). Feel generous and need to get your good on, but don’t have a penny to give to Goodwill/St. Vincent’s, The Vatican, etc. ? Pick these bastards, dice em up with a little ‘sweat equity’, and voila! Instant homeless chow! Guaranteed to get you a better seat in purgatory. Unless you’re Jewish. Or Buddhist. Or an Atheist. But you get the point.
Remember in Genesis 3:6, and how that dopey bitch ate the apple and screwed us all over forever? Now you can get even with that little slut by picking from MY “Tree of Knowledge”. “But Dude”, you say, “What The Fuck am I gonna do with all those damn apples, Bro-cephus?”. I’m glad you asked Gentle Reader, because for NO ADDITIONAL CHARGE I’m going to include a link to “55 Uses For Apples”. 55 Ways to keep your ass in the kitchen making everything from Apple Sauce to Apple Ziti to Apple Bread. That will keep you busy and out of your boyfriend/girlfriend/husband/life partner’s hair well into football season. So prime that oven and get your kick-ass kitchen ready for some serious apple-ly goodness. Get on the Apple Bandwagon and start cookin, Betty Crocker.
http://greatist.com/health/surprising-ways-use-leftover-apples
You pick. I aint pickin a damn thing. However, I have 2 mad as hell ladders you can use to reach heavenward and pick your little red spheres of joy! (Don’t even think about pulling a slip & fall and having some lawyer over here suing me cause your back aches. If you cant operate a ladder without falling off, stay your ass on the couch. My insurance don’t cover that shit. Get hurt in my yard, the best I can do for you is to try and not laugh while we wait for the ambulance)
You are hardcore as fuck if you pick my apples.
Peace
Location: XXXXXX
it’s NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
That’s fucked up! I’m certain you’d have had at least a few eager contestants show up if they’d have let it fly.
What of it, asshole?
Yeah, that was a hanging curve for HM.
If you didn’t get “got busy in a Burger King bathroom”, just turn your card in right now.
I sang on Doowutchyalike.
Otis! My man!
Over under on replies he got? I’m betting more than 5 not counting versions of DIAF you pig. I’ll also bet at least one DIAF you pig ended up in his bed.
20%
Meh….you’re not off. Craigslist got me laid a lot.
Shit and I thought my “free bunny” post was good.
This was awesome.
Its no “her breath was low tide and old blood”, but it was the best I could do at the time.
You’re having fun at the expense of people just trying to find the love of their lives. Thumbs up.
Who says Im not, too?
/sobs, and runs from room crying
Ermagerd! That was YOU?????
Consider yourself lucky.
Thanks so much for writing this, Chafed.
I am almost done with my stint as a co-trustee for my grandmother. There is still one parcel of land to sell and then we can close out.
It was actually a pretty smooth process. We have a terrific attorney who coordinated everything.
You’ve also reminded me to review my own docs. The medical directive stuff keeps changing – I may hire a specialist.
Thanks, again! This is great stuff.
?
Am I a killjoy, asshole for hating this kind of stuff? I’m on the train, not in your living room.
https://twitter.com/CynthiaNixon/status/1179560626575855617
I was going to say “nah” but then it started getting really dope.
Plagiarizing Footloose. Shame on you.
I have a cock. No, not that little pathetic fucking thing you call a “penis”. No, I’m talking about a meat sword. I’m talking about the pussy obstructor. I’m talking about the sausage-like devil. I’m talking about my swarthy, brown, fat, throbbing long cock. It drags on the floor. What can you say about your little baby penis? It can cum? So can I, little buddy, I can cum. Except I can REALLY cum. My cock is so long when I get boners, I faint because of the excessive blood being shot into it. I’ve killed people with just my cock. Little bitch. So before you talk about your little prepubescent peepee, just remember who really has something to brag about. Bitch.
This exchange requires this
My dick is so big, it still has snow on top in summer.
Wash
relax your jaw…..
Sounds like a strawberry party in the eighties.
I fucking hate it.
I am also never, ever without earphones on the train.
Do you actually ever see it first hand?
That kind of elaborate act is not very common on my R train, TBH – it tends to be concentrated on the more “popular” lines – but it does happen. Mostly, we just get the regular parade of panhandlers and grifters.
I’m rarely in a situation where something like that comes up, but mostly I’m just trying to get from point A to point B with a minimum of fuss. I don’t want to have to smile politely and pretend I’m really interested in guerrilla theater or whatever. It’s like mimes at a Ren Faire when I’m just trying to get another beer.
Woo hoo! Rangers win! Stanley Cup this year for sure!
Winner is probably coming out of the Central.
Sorry.
Yeah, I was just trolling.
Ha. That was pretty wild. I don’t know how good Winnipeg is supposed to be – we hardly ever play them.
Sure. Sure. And the Broncos are going to win the Super Bowl.
Well, they probably will.
Just not within the next 5 years.
This is all wrong. I shouldn’t be up here. I should be grilling and drinking beer on the other side of the ocean. Yet, you all come to us employed, middle-class people for taxes. How dare you! You have stolen my dreams and my retirement with your empty words, and yet I am one of the lucky ones. People are suffering. People are dying. Entire governments are collapsing under entitlement spending. We are in the beginning of a mass deficit and all you can talk about is memes and fairy tales of transgender bathrooms. How dare you!
Not bad, but it needs something… can you try it in a death metal voice?
Hey, buddy, can you spare a dime?
Can you spare a thin? You know- a dime?
fairy tales of transgender bathrooms
The fairy tale is anime Futanari.
The reality is trigglypuff.
Divest early and often from your family.
That’s my best advice.
DIvest early and often from my family. That’s better advice.
When my grandpa died, his 7 sons had worked out an an agreement on his house and land that was fair. Mostly because none of them expected a financial windfall from his death.
Also, my father and all his brothers are still a tight nit group. A part of the reason why is that upon grandpa’s death, they distributed his property in an already agreed upon metric that possed off nobody.
My wifes family is permanently fractured because many of them were looking for a financial windfall upon the death of her grandpa
I keep noticing a lot feminine pronouns being used when shit goes sideways in an inheritance dispute. Just sayin’.
I kept my mouth shut (well I dropped one hint above). The kind of fights this stuff inspires fit the female conflict mode better than male. Especially when the women are not heirs, but spouses of heirs.
Normally, I only notice trends when it involves mass shooters.
Yeah we had that with my dad’s dad. He was a big shot CEO and rolling back when. That whole side of the family dedicated their lives to maximizing their inheritance. Gramps ended up out living pretty much all of them AND losing his ass in the big crash of ’08. He left my brother $100.00 and me $500.00. My brother was kind of a dick.
Thanks for this info, Chafed. Mr. GT & I tried to get all the important stuff taken care of a few years ago after his first Health Adventure. Got the wills and the medical & financial POAs – the latter are on file and in effect at the financial institution where I work.
I suppose I should dig around a little and remind myself where all those other pieces of paper are. #clutterblind
Definitely a good idea. Those documents are useless right up until they are critical.
This was a very informative article. I will probably print it or book mark it for future reference.
I’ve just gone through some health issues with my FIL with my wife and her family. He is still very sick and will have a longer time than we first thought, but this event pushed my wife and I to see an attorney about creating a trust and medical power of attorney for both of us.
My parents are still alive, but both have health issues. I love my sisters but they both think our parents are an endless source of cash. I’m sure I will be the one chosen to be executor in case one or both parents die. I expect nothing, but my sisters have never been able to keep a dime. I expect the meticulous documentation will be helpful.
Wish I had asked you for advice when my common law wife, who had oil land, had died. I was so broke I couldn’t even afford the “screw you over for large percentage” lawyers. I got bupkis.
Dude, did you ask about a contingency fee? If there was enough at issue then I would have expected someone to take your case.
Can someone do a porn search for me?
NO!
*yes
Trying to get around the pixels?
Obscenity rules are an interesting area. Japan: schoolgirl demoniac incest, with rape and magical hermaphroditism? sure, unpixellated pubes? NO!
Did someone ask about facial hair here somewhere, earlier?
The rules don’t have to make sense. In fact, it’s better if they don’t. If they made sense, and were permanent, some people might follow them as a matter of principle, or at least habit.
It is only through rules that evolve arbitrarily and frequently that you can measure true loyalty to the rules.
Does it involve tentacles?
It involves something you can’t handle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHbpdKiInn8
Done. The only thing I found you in was some weird scene involving a schoolgirl and what I can only assume was supposed to be calamari.
He was in Old Boy? I thought that was a Korean movie?!
Old Boy was a retelling of his life story.
Impressive. You found my squirting video.
But why is it black?
Oh dear God.
SF has summoned the elder gods. Be careful what you call on for help. Something might answer
???
The Case for Black Optimism
He didn’t blame the Clintons, you hack, he accurately pointed out that, the cities with the highest black poverty, poor schools (to put it mildly), and high black unemployment have been run by democrats for decades- with the problems getting worse rather than better.
Can one imagine a Clinton stopping so low as to be an alderman, a city council member, or even a mayor? (Sorry Guiliani and Emanuele, but mayor? Lol)
No you misunderstand he means it was infamous for Trump to try to get Black people to vote for him. They belong on the Blue plantation!
Sorry, not in a mood for reading (an article), but thanks for it man.
Bookmarkit!
It actually isn’t all that bad, if you wade through it.
I don’t doubt it, but this kind of stuff brings up bad emotions, plus I’m drunk.
Also the bonus question I posed before:
“Cast not your pearls before swine…and that includes impudent piglets!”
Was Auntie Shrew is The Secret of NIMH.
Where is the question?
Upthread somewhere.
Am I really that late?
/shit….
National Institute of Mental Health?
Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIMH
No fair! I said it up top!!
Thanks Mo. I never heard of it before tonight. SD, I saw that and thought you were joking. Lesson learned.
/hangs uncultured head in shame
Well, you’re all grown up, now (I presume), so, not gonna tear into you. Too much.
Like I said, didn’t feel like reading the article tonight, but since it’s your specialty, and this is a question I’ve had for some years; Can you will away only possessions? Or can you also will your debts?
Nope, the banks or whatever creditors there are swoop in and take your stuff when you’re gone.
You’re assuming there are any assets of value, poor assumption.
You can’t force anyone to accept what you leave them. Your debts will just go unpaid if you leave nothing to pay them, unless some relative steps up to pay them out of a sense of obligation.
What if I put some one Brewster’s Millions type stipulation? Then after they pay the debts instead of the promised money they get one of those audio recording greeting cards with me laughing at them?
You will be dead, what is anyone going to do to you if I tell you that is illegal?
Just as long as when I lay dieing someone tells me it’s true, I can die happy like that guy who was told Trump died on the Animal Farm when that bag of weed fell out his ass while Lou Reed played a tribute to STEVE SMITH.
Now, THAT was a great news story!
No my point was if you fool someone into paying your debts, even if that is fraudulent it is not like they can do anything to you.
Your debts generally are settled from your estate before assets are distributed. Mortgaged property can pass to the heirs subject to the existing mortgage (meaning the heirs can take the house, but still have to pay the mortgage if they do) this occasionally produces a situation where the heirs never take the house and the bank doesn’t want to foreclose. Those can be fun.
I swear to gawd, if you will your debts to me, I will drop that Patreon subscription like a bad habit.
What difference, at this point, does it make [to me]?
As long as I don’t have to wipe you, like, with a cloth, I’ll be fine.
You think you get a cloth?
The left hand is good enough for ‘all the brown people’, as MikeS so rudely calls them, but not for MikeS. What a colonial shit heel!
Maybe if they’d use a cloth they wouldn’t have brown skin!
*Pauses for a moment walking past MikeS hovel* Why yes sir, I would like to peruse your newsletter written on discarded sanitary napkins!
Who wants to keep them in the first place?!?
/nope–not interested in your theories, either
Depends on your definition of “is”.
Sorry–different fubar
You just made it into Bill and Hillary’s marriage vows.
Can I opt out?
Leave somebody an old medieval castle in Europe and watch.
What? I wish you could- if so I would rack up some serious debt and pin it on some people I didn’t like. It would be like being the government, for once.
That’s the idea.
I’d be sending pictures to people with captions like “Me with some women on the beaches of Colombia, and a small team of scientists thinking up new ways they could be nice to me, paid for with my credit card. Bon Chance!” right before I faked my own death.
Meh, I’d play it out until my real death. Otherwise it’s no fun.
I think it’s only on death that the people you’ve designated inherit your debt. Thinking about this further, I’m definitely going to designate Bernie Sanders as the guy responsible for my debt. I’ve known him since I was 12…
Only possessions. Secured debt goes with the property pledged as collateral. Unsecured debt gets paid from other property in the estate. If you have a negative net worth the overage gets extinguished in probate.
I don’t know the particulars but when my grandfather passed last summer and he did something in his final year that ultimately made things complicated.
His farm was as far as I know the only real asset he had besides a few pieces of 40 year old machinery. He wanted that farm to stay in the family and whatever it was he did, my mom and dad have spent a fair amount of time the last 15 months trying to get it all straightened out to her and one of her brothers satisfaction.
My wife’s grandparents have got everything on their end well in order.
A couple months ago they sold the house they lived in for 50 years, packed up a few pieces of furniture and a couple boxes of things that were most precious to them, moved into a retirement condo, and told my MiL and her sisters to sell/give away/throw away/keep whatever else was in the house which they have already accomplished.
Wife took their giant world map that documents all their travels over the last 20 years.
Kind of a silly and simple thing, but any time we visited them before I’d spend a good half hour looking at that map.
Not silly at all. Very cool.
I’ll second that. I’d be all over that.
Both of my parents are passed years ago so the above probably applies best to me.
Which brings a question – if I have property in two countries do I need a will in both countries to cover the property in each?
Bad idea! Just one will.
Even I know that the answer is “yes”.
Then I guess I really have to sell the machine guns before too long since I can only imagine how those would look in a Japanese document.
My good buddy! I can help you with this! No need to sell anything. I will make sure they have a good loving home 🙂
Technical answer: no. Practical answer: yes. You could use one will be getting it admitted to probate in country Y after it’s admitted in country X could be a royal pain in the ass. Also requirements for admission could easily be different between the countries.
Under the Japanese conflict-of-law rules, succession is generally governed by the laws of the deceased’s nationality. The execution and effect of a will is governed by the laws of the testator’s nationality when the will is executed. However, Japan has ratified the Convention on the Conflicts of Laws Relating to the Form of Testamentary Dispositions (October 5 1961) and pursuant to the domestic law enacted thereunder (the Hague Convention and Law), a will is legally valid if it complies with:
the laws of country where the will was executed;
the laws of the country of the testator’s nationality when the will was executed or the testator is dead;
the laws of the country of the testator’s domicile when the will was executed or the testator was dead;
the laws of the country of the testator’s habitual residence when the will was executed or the testator was dead; or
in case of a will regarding immovable property, the laws of the country where such immovable property is located.
pure copypasta
Is the estate worth much? If so, lawyer up. If not, rely on the international convention on wills, etc., assuming the two countries are parties to it.
Don’t ask Schumer or Warren that question. Especially, Schumer. That cocksucker’s ideas have caused me major headaches.
Cleaned up the first version a bit. This is what happens when you die.
https://i.imgflip.com/3cc7lo.jpg
You get shitty at photoshop?!
Fair play. *Avoids taking cheap shot back.
Turtle Coke Sex Party?
I mean…why not, right?
Meh, I’ll admit I’m not great at photoshop. I’m pretty much mediocre at everything.
Tuesday I bought the Spider-Man Far From Home blu-ray. Watched it tonight for the first time since I saw it in the theater. I stand by my earlier assessment. The MCU Spider-Man is great, as long as he’s not in his own movies. I’ll assume this is due to Sony’s involvement. Spider-Man is my favorite Marvel character, but his solo MCU movies rub the bottom of the barrel with Captain Marvel.
Save it for Saturday night!
(you’ll see, if you pace yourself)
This was quite timely – thank you, Chafed. I’ll be saving this.
FWIW, I had a good talk with a family friend at a birthday luncheon on Saturday (for my aunt – 82, my mom is a scant 3 years behind her) – he’s in ill health but a super-savvy man. He strongly suggested “6 essential things”:
1. Will- self explanatory
2. Living Will- written instructions for attorney and MD re life sustaining measures she does or doesn’t want. Coma, etc.
3. Power of Attorney-can act for you legally while you are alive and competent.
4. Durable Power Attorney- Power of Attorney if unable to handle financial matters. Allows access to all her finances if she is unable. Buying , selling investments, etc.
5 . Health Care Proxy-appoints someone to make decisions should she be unable.
6. Burial and Funeral Instructions- cremation? Burial? Type of ceremony, etc etc
(that’s from a follow-up e-mail from him).
The distinction between ‘Power of Attorney’ and ‘Durable Power of Attorney’ wasn’t one I was familiar with.
I’ll be discussing all 6 with mom, soon-ish.
re: mom’s eventual passing: I can confidently predict my sister will be a total nightmare about it. She and her son live with my mom as of a year or two ago and I’m am confident she will claim she needs to keep the house for $REASONS.
My brothers will be cool – neither I nor my younger brother need anything from her estate – but my older brother could seriously use his share of the estate (3 kids in college) and the house will be the single largest asset at the time of my mother’s passing. So I’m expecting nonsense from my sister.
Good times.
All that aside, I should probably do those 6 things myself, even though it’s just my wife and I (and the dog, but I don’t think she’d be a good healthcare proxy).
Thanks again, Chafed.
I should add his coda:
“All best done through attorney for elder law. I would not use online forms. All are formal documents.
We put home in trust to kids too. Gov’t can ultimately cash in on it if other funds run out while medicare kicks in . If in trust to kids for five years prior to death, gov’t can’t touch. Otherwise at death, they garnish funds from sale of house to pay whatever nursing home, MD fees accrued after regular funds ran out.
Expect 5-10 K in attorney charges for all this. ”
(he’s in NY)
Thanks so much for writing this article, Chafed. Very valuable information that everyone needs!
I’m glad to help.
Sir Digs, showing up late to the comments.
I think of you more like Norm to my Cliff Claven. Now I feel bad that you don’t feel the same…
Me? Like Norm?
/how’d you find out about the Milk-Bone underwear?
I would have reversed the joke since I’m the one who is always drinking beer, but that first clip was Norm being locked in alone over night, so that made more sense.
Either way, it’s good to have some entertainment icon that I can relate to.
What I meant was, an icon to whom I can be compared to.
Of course, I can relate to both. I’m cool like that.
And that’s why I love! But not in a gay way! The way two bananas dipped in chrome can love each other!
Is this a Zen thing? I will endeavor to understand…
Also–https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKGc2TwOKdc
Just something from some asshole. What a piece of shit.
That IS obscure…
/A Sconnie thing
Yeah, and them piece of shit sconnies voted for Tumputin.
Sir Digby! Sir! I am curious. Are you in a vastly different time zone or do you work swing shift?
Oh, I’m graveyard all the way, in G-d’s own Time zone–Central.
Central! Excellent.
I have fond memories of working graves in a convenience store my last year of college.
I came to my new agency to:
-divest myself of supervisory duties
-do so on graveyard shift
I am a night-owl by nature, and may even be related to Pie!
I can’t believe I made a second Pie/vampire joke….
No matter what I try, my natural sleep cycle is between 12am and 10am central. If I go to bed earlier, I usually sleep just as late as if I’m until 3am.
The only exception is when I know I have to work an early shift, I can wake up at 3to4 am, even if I don’t get to sleep until midnight.
I am no longer sure if I even have a natural sleep cycle. I chalk it up to stress, and/or being me.
Interestingly enough, I usually have coffee as my dinner, and it usually makes me sleepy.
SD did you notice the easter egg I left you in the article?
Yes! See #13.
And, #16.
Just read them. You the man!
I’m a man!
Also–will be using this article for help with my mother’s will/property, as she wants to will her house to the people who work on it for almost-free, and I want nothing to do with it, other than see that she gets what she wants.
Chafed; I’ve been shitting up your post with snark. Sorry, not sorry.
I plan to give this a proper reading tomorrow. I skimmed and it looks very informative. Thanks!
Why are you apologizing? You shit up every post.
It’s shits all the way down!
Fair point.
But are there an equal number of shits in both columns?
My Fair Thread-Shitting
Great movie. Classic.
Speaking of–are any of you reprobates, who are still lurking, aware that It’s Always Sunny is back on? Second episode broadcast yesterday…
My mom and aunt fought bitterly over my grandma’s estate, but it started before. Mom (who had been supported in a number of ways over the years) moved in to take care of Grandma in her final years, and cut her sister off from contact and such.
When Grandma finally died, mom made a play to keep all of the properties for herself and freeze out her sister. Which led to lawsuits (did I mention her sister was a lawyer and involved in politics?). Ended up after much acrimony and burning cash with a settlement that any random idiot would have come up with in the first place.
Aunt sent me an email after the settlement about a small amount left to the grandkids. At that point I didn’t want anything to do with the
estate. It was all blood money and I’d rather treasure memories of swimming at my grandparents house in the summer or how my grandpa always had a rough 5 o’clock shadow even right after shaving (which I seem to have inherited). I still send my aunt a Christmas card every year.
Yep. You watch stubborn people locking horns and have to think, “What if neither of you blinks.” Reminds me of the prisoner’s dilemma.
They end up something like this
That. Was. AWESOME.
Perfect.
In NC (2001) while deer hunting I came across two bucks with locked antlers dead in a thicket. After the season ended I returned with a hacksaw and liberated the heads. I still have them. My ex used to call it a “Testosterone Poisoning” sculpture.
I’m already fucked, that’s OK
Yu are not!
/see what I did there? funny time!
Oh…this is…unfortunate.
https://www.theblaze.com/news/maine-hospital-staff-kept-wall-of-shame-displaying-clippings-of-intimate-details-from-disabled-patients-medical-records
/CPRM, you know which song to cue up.
JFC. And no focus on the patients. That’s some fine reporting Lou.
Noticed who these “people” picked to rag on.
And, boy, do they ever have some strange fetishes!
It’s disgusting. They are dealing with the weak and vulnerable and that’s cwho they mock. While they violate patient confidentiality. I hope some of the affected patients know. That’s a great lawsuit.
I can hear the cries of “Gallows humor” and the “need to decompress” getting warmed up.
And, this is coming from someone who knows about that need. But, fucking hell–they ARE sicker than any of those patients.
That would be a bullshit excuse. Jokes they make to one another are fine. The moment then pinned up confidential info is the moment they hung themselves.
Oh, totally! I just presume that’s going to be a big part of their mea culpa at some point.
It’s unfortunate only in that they put it on a wall, got caught doing so, and that it was publicized. Putting it on a wall was a bad idea, but let’s be honest. Any normal set of humans tasked with taking care of another set of humans whose highest aspirations are grabbing some shit and smearing it on a wall is going to go a bit crazy. It’s a lot to ask of people.
I’m reminded of a friend who goes nuts once a year or so (and sometimes has to be committed to a locked ward.) I’m fond of him, but when he’s in that state it’s hard not to have a certain contempt for him, unfair as that is. Why can’t you just not be nuts, I think, while humoring (and sometimes committing) him.
If your job is to manage people who are entirely unable to take care of themselves, people who masturbate randomly in public and shit and piss themselves at will, _of course_ you are
going to have some contempt for them. It could not be otherwise, and if you think it could you are either a saint or someone who has never had to care for seriously disabled people.
That wall of photos was inappropriate, but what it represents is a sentiment present in every ward like that, and a sentiment that is inherent in every such ward. We should not pretend otherwise.
18 Years in LE, with the first few being a jailer for a smallish city; I know a lot about that contempt. And, I don’t blame them for needing a pressure valve–working in a college setting, even I need one, too.
The thing is, they were waaaay out of line in how they dealt with that. To the point of violating Federal legislation. As much as I hate saying this, it would be one thing for them to have the “Did you see that Johnson guy’s dick? Freaky…” conversation. What they did was criminal. Plus, there are already going to be embarrassment issues with some patients, as other healthcare providers have done similar things.
They should have had a more appropriate way of expressing this (without violating patient confidentiality, and had someone watching over them that could keep this sort of thing in focus (“Hey–remember they’re disabled. If you need a break from them, come see me.”).
Bingo. That’s exactly right.
I might agree that the actions here crossed the line into actual criminal offense. I’m not sure I think they ought to be charged as such. I think it’s important to understand why it occurred, and why it’s very difficult to ensure people are treated well within institutions. This wall is the least of it.
I don’t have a good answer for this. People are what they are…
I would be OK with no criminal charges and probably a lawsuit. Jobs like this do grind on people, and it’s easy to get jaded, depending on personalities.
Thanks for the article Chafed. It’s a reminder that I should get that stuff in order. I’m only in my forties, but I have kids. It’s too easy to put that stuff off.
Move out the way old crusty white dude, the world isn’t your racist…um…pokemon…anymoar!
Jynx?kquote>racist…um…pokemon
Jynx?
OK…no idea how that happened. It was formatted properly when I posted.
Yes it is. Remember Kswell, if you don’t have a plan then the government has one for you.
Wills, trusts, funerals, plans, things…
My brother (a great dude and my good friend) lives near my parents in Indy. He gets to deal with their old age, decrepitude, and death. He can inherit all the stuff. God bless him.
My wife’s brother (a great dude and a friend) lives near her parents and will deal with the wills, trusts, funerals, plans and stuff. He can inherit all the stuff.
The wife and I are a pretty tight unit, and are enjoying our own (selfish) adventure. If our siblings can handle the hassle and pain of dealing with that end of life shit, they deserve to get it all. They earned every penny.
Deserve has nothing to do with it. Follow the document or follow the laws of intestate succession. Morality will not vgovern the outcome
Unless you take it to Judge Judy…
/ducks Chafed’s mighty swing.
My point was, my wife and I would never interfere with the execution of our parents’ wills, trusts, end of life instructions, etc. Our siblings are going to be the executors of that stuff, and they have our total support.
Random music link of a jangly, noisy basher of a song from a Mexico City quartet. https://youtu.be/epddZMiavUw
I missed your point. Got it now.
That ain’t half bad, e. Kudos!
See, dammit! I told you: Without Net Neutrality, there would be blood!
This is blood on your hands, you elephant shills!
That war was totally worth it. *groan*
When the beverage cart dips into its own stash.
I saw that the other day. I can’t believe none of the ramp workers didn’t try to jump in.
Unionized? Plus, whatever spills is free!!
Lol. I’m guessing that crew is built for power, not speed.
“Power”…yeah, probably
/more than me, I guess
Very informative article Chafed. Thanks for posting it. You transferred some important knowledge.
Random music link of 7 Australian dudes jamming microtonal guitars to a motorik beat singing about rattlesnakes with acid acid video graphics. 2 drummers. https://youtu.be/Q-i1XZc8ZwA
Thanks egould. My favorite Australian band.
https://youtu.be/3f2g4RMfhS0
Nice tune. I think the next guitar purchase may be a Gibson SG. Dig that sound.
My favorite Australian.
https://images.app.goo.gl/KoMek59W3VimXtfN8
What did you think of her in The Edge?
Needs less clothes.
There is that facet…
Just remember, in order to keep the narrative balanced (it IS Mamet, after all), if she were more nude, that would necessitate Hopkins doing the same, and….::shudder::
I love me some Hopkins, but in the clothed sense.
I’m with you. I wouldn’t make that trade.
??
Mamet likes, or at least casts, pretty girls. A friend’s girlfriend had a small role in a Mamet movie, partially because Mamet liked her father’s pizza place enough that Mamet was something of a family friend, but mainly, I think, because she was very pretty, and had a certain charisma. I wonder what became of her. She was a remarkable young woman.
I respect Mamet. He can write, of course- that much is evident. But he can think, as well, I’ve always liked this from him: https://www.villagevoice.com/2008/03/11/david-mamet-why-i-am-no-longer-a-brain-dead-liberal/
Please tell me this is first class trolling.
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2019/10/03/kerry-picket-witnesses-woman-freak-out-over-climate-change-at-aoc-town-hall-talk-about-eating-babies/
OK, the “bomb Russia” part was a dead giveaway.
I have a feeling Rufus is somehow responsible.
https://dailycaller.com/2019/10/03/canadian-conservative-leader-andrew-scheer-possible-pm-us-citizen/
What is Festus, chopped liver?
Not at all. It’s just easier to blame a muppet.
Oh, riiiiight! Gotcha…
Hmm… Boris Johnson…
New comment: Chafed, you mentioned having been really busy lately–has this been one of things you’ve had on your plate? Either way–excellent job!
I’ve worked on this sporadically over a couple of months. At some point I forgot about it. When Swiss recently putcout the call for articles I pulked it up, made some revisions, and sent it to SP. It was time to stop polishing it and just put it out there.
You, mon frere, have the BEST euphemisms. L’Chaim.
Also, I wish to live my life by that sentiment. It’s really quite the mantra.
People pay to listen to this. I would pay not to hear it.
https://youtu.be/L24OP-Im578
This.
Also, the interviewer is pretty much a caricature.
No, she IS.
Alright we are north of 400 comments. You’ve been a great audience. DoG bless and good night.
Dayum! Gotta up my weekend game…
Gained are next thread over..
*games
I’m late to the party. This is informative and useful. Thanks!