In the early nineteen nineties I had the opportunity to make money for college, experience the thrills of the big city, and learn lessons of free market capitalism. All it required from me was twelve to twenty-four hour workdays laboring outside in the elements, dealing with muggers, crack heads, hookers, pimps, petty thieves, and worst of all the New York City consumer during the holidays. I experienced the best and worst of the city, my co-workers, managers, and citizens during the weeks between Thanksgiving and Christmas Eve. This is a memoir with stories across three years consolidated into one narrative.
The Pitch and the Gig
My buddy Dean worked at a family-owned landscaping business that had a nursery and tree farm. One Friday we were hanging out drinking some vile beverages, smoking cigs, and shooting the shit.
Dean said to me, “Time, do you want to make some money this weekend? It’ll be a blast and we can drink when we get done.”
“Well”, I said, “twenty bucks is twenty bucks…So what’s the gig?”
For some context — Time is habitually poor, a freshman in college, and working multiple part-time jobs under the table. Dean told me they needed someone at his job to help drive and unload a truck of Christmas trees from the nursery to a bunch of tree stands in New York City. Dean began the sales pitch.
“The job pays seven dollars an hour, my boss will buy us a bunch of drinks and food when we get there, then we drive home the next day with all the cash and receipts from the stands.”
I responded, “I’m in Deaner, I’m free this weekend and I’ve never been to New York City unsupervised”.
Over the next several weeks I went from being hired labor for the weekend, to staying for the rest of the holiday season selling and delivering trees at several of the stands. Over the next three years I was managing a stand, delivering and setting up decorations at a few really wealthy clients’ homes, and trying to study for midterms during the chaos.
Arrival and First Impressions
My first tree gig had Deaner and me taking a stake-body truck full of trees from the farm in rural Pennsylvania to New York. We had an uneventful two-hour drive and arrived at three in the morning. We drove into upper Manhattan across the George Washington Bridge, down the Westside highway, and promptly double parked on 110th Street between Riverside Drive and Broadway.
As we exited the truck I was hit with a brisk wind blowing off the Hudson cutting through the large buildings. It’s was about thirty degrees but the wind chill was substantial. I felt apprehension and excitement as I walked into the street and on to the sidewalk. Till now I’ve only visited New York as a teen during school field trips.
In my head I’m saying to myself, “I’m in the big city at three in the morning, woohoo!”
There was still quite a lot of activity and lights from businesses on Broadway even at this late of an hour. As I looked down 110th street it was comparatively dark, but I could see the yellow glow of a cathedral in the distance with an outline of dim street lights.
The tree stand was halfway down the long city block on the right side of the street, the sidewalk was now a narrow walkway surrounded on both sides by upright Christmas trees each with an X-shaped, two-by-four base that was nailed to the trunk. There was also a short pile of twenty twine-bound trees near the back of the stand. Each tree had a two-part tag with a price and description of the type of tree on both halves. There was a hut near the middle of the stand made of two-by-fours and opaque plastic sheeting with a single bulb inside. Near the hut was a green wooden table with a red tree funnel and bailing netting. As Deaner and I walked up to the hut, he and I noted that there was a person inside and he was not moving.
Deaner gave me the fingers to the lips “shush” gesture, he grabbed a base from the pile, snuck up to the hut, and then violently pounded the base against the frame of the hut and screamed.
“Give me all your money, Mutha Fucka!”
We saw the obviously sleeping figure bolt upright and start to stumble around the hut while stammering.
“Whuuut… nooo,” followed meekly by, “go away man I got an axe.”
Deaner yelled out, “relax Jerry, it’s Dean, you need to stay the fuck awake or you’re going get rolled and cleaned out.”
Jerry popped his head out of the hut and put on a goofy smile.
“Hey Dean,” he responded.
Shortly thereafter, recognition pushed through the resin in his brain.
Jerry turned towards me and said, “Time, woooww man, how’d you get here?”
Jerry and I were acquaintances from high school. He’s one of those permanently stoned, even when he’s not, Grateful Dead loving, harmless hippies that everyone of a certain age had in their high school.
We collectively tried to wake up by grabbing a smoke and a cup of instant coffee from the hut. We then unloaded forty or so trees from the truck.
We drove to and unloaded trees at two additional stands on the West Side of Manhattan with the help of the night guards in various states of consciousness. Deaner and I got in to the truck after the third stand was resupplied.
I asked him, “where to now, Deaner?”
Deaner responded back, “we gotta get to the other two stands but they’re on the East Side.”
Neither I nor Deaner knew this at the time, but there were only a few ways across Central Park from the West Side to the East Side, you could go around it or take two or three cross streets. I read from an Exxon map that there was a crossing at 65th street that seemed convenient since our next stand was on 66th and Lexington.
I bellowed over the stake body truck engine and wind noise, “Take 65th Deaner”
Deaner responded, “will do, Time” as he turned into the park.
We were accelerating as we plunged into the relatively dark park in the middle of the bright city center. Everything was going well until we saw a stone tunnel under an overpass fast approaching. We were going way too fast and ignoring signs of clearances and no commercial traffic warnings. Dean and I looked at each other for a split second in shared horror.
Deaner shouted out, “Fuck It!” Then he hit the gas.
The two by four stakes sticking up out of the top of the truck hit and sheared off one at a time as we shot through the tunnel. We stopped for a quick second after exiting the tunnel and I checked the load. The trees were still in the bed of the stake body but all of the stakes were broken off the truck and laying in the tunnel. There was no sense in waiting to be arrested or having the truck impounded.
I turned to Deaner and yelled, “Let’s get the fuck out of here!”
So we got back in the truck and continued on our way.
We arrived at the last two stands, unloaded the last of the trees, and drove back to the first stand on 110th street to park it for the rest of the morning. We then walked to meet the boss for breakfast to provide an inventory of the deliveries at each stand. Before we arrived at the restaurant we both agreed that the tunnel incident never happened.
The Big Boss
Dean and I walked a few blocks down Broadway to Happy Burger on 93rd to meet the boss, Don, or as Dean called him, Uncle Donny. He was not his actual uncle but he saw him as a bit of a mentor and comic figure. Happy Burger was a greasy spoon restaurant that served huge burgers and great breakfasts. We walked into the dim back of the restaurant and I see a skinny older man dressed in clean work clothes, wearing a stocking cap, smoking a Kool, and holding a thermos mug. He had wispy gray hair, glasses, and a stern look on his face. He was surrounded by several grubby looking tired guys eating breakfast and talking. As we approached the table, Donny’s face changed to a smile as he called out to us.
“Well hello Deany my boy, is this your man Time you told me about?”
Dean introduced me to Don and the table of stand managers. Don invited us to sit down as he began talking to me.
“So Timey how was your drive in, do you like the city, are you busy the next several days or weeks?”
After each of my responses Donny would respond, “splendid, splendid.”
Don was surly when we arrived because he had just fired two guys that morning and sent them packing to the Port Authority.
Don turned to me and asked in a cultured and intelligent sounding tone, “So Timey how would you like to make some money this week and experience the wonders of New York culture during the best time of the year?”
Deaner turned to me and said he could go to my house, pick up some clothes, and then bring them back on his next trip in.
I turned to Don and responded, “I appreciate the opportunity, but what’s the pay, and where will I be sleeping?”
Don responded that the job paid seven dollars an hour excluding tips and that he had paid for a very nice hotel for his people to stay in while they worked in the city. I would also be given a forty dollar advance for expenses and food.
I though it over and decided I would stay the week and try it out.
“I’m in Don, thanks for the opportunity.”
Don smiled again, stood up, shook my hand, and responded in a soft-spoken voice, “Splendid, splendid Timey.”
As I shook his hand I got a strong whiff of Scotch and Kools.
“So when do I start, Don?” I responded back.
“Well Timey”, he sang, “better three hours too soon than a minute too late.”
One of the stand managers, Bill, then spoke up.
“He means you need to get your sorry ass over to 110th and Broadway because your shift started thirty minutes ago.”
Deaner and I left the Happy Burger and walked back to the stand at 110th street.
I turned to him and said, “Well…twenty bucks is twenty bucks”
Deaner responded, “You’ll remember this for the rest of your life and if you hustle you’ll make lots of money. So work hard, have fun, but don’t get yourself killed, fuckface.”
Part 2: It’s Good Work If You Can Get It — The Job; My Co-Workers; Hotel Living at its Finest, or Alternatively, Welcome to Hell.
Part 3: Oh the Humanity — The People that You Meet Each Day; The People that You Don’t Meet Each Day; Crack, Crime, and Co-Workers; The End Game; The City Then and Now
Comments
233 responses to “Hey, Tree Man!!! — Tales of the Big City and of Time’s Past, Part 1: Arrival”
I feel like a kid on Christmas morning. When’s the next installment?
Tomorrow. Same Glib time, same Glib channel.
*sets alarm clock*
Wait wait wait.
We have channels here?
Yeah, but you need the secret decoder ring to find them.
My decoder ring just keeps talking about Ovaltine.
Did you say ovaltine?
They should call it Roundtine.
And part 3 is Tuesday?
(I always do really good on the pattern recognition parts of those standardized tests)
Maybe. If you are all very, very good.
Can we get a definition of good?
No.
Well, shit.
I’ve been waiting for this since timeloose first mentioned it. A quick skim looks good already.
*goes back to top*
Splendid, splendid. I’m digging it. I might even start smoking again so I can have a Kool with my scotch. Just for the ambiance.
Ok, I’m in. Looking forward to the next installment. ??
This is fun. I like it.
Thanks y’all. Part 2 is longer and more detailed.
…dealing with muggers, crack heads, hookers, pimps, petty thieves, and worst of all the New York City consumer during the holidays.
Is there going to be piss hookers in this story? I am intrigued.
Every story from 90’s NY needs hookers, Puerto Ricans and Meg Ryan.
There will be a few Puerto Rican’s. No Meg Ryan, but I may have been in a much better looking woman’s house. She was very nineties.
Should be. They didn’t turn into Apple Stores until the 00s.
To respond to someone posts from the last thread:
I’m in Florida, near Daytona and really enjoying it.
Mojeaux should definitely make gingerbread
Yusef and Wendy are in my prayers
Straffinrun, the challenge has been awesome, and hands and feet are hard.
Enjoy FL. I have never been to Daytona. My old stomping grounds are further south.
-someone
You know what else is….
Aww, never mind, this is a family friendly website.
I’m writing it up as we speak. *Looks at weathered, oyaji hands*
This the view. It’s awesome https://photos.app.goo.gl/kxC6v1ynVVzJ9FhT6
Flagler beach?
No, near Daytona
There’s a cool place to eat in Flagler, with live music and across the street from the beach. Looks just like your pics. The guy playing when I was there played like Cat Stevens, CSNY kinda stuff. Very entertaining. It’s maybe 10 miles north of Daytona. Cool place.
Not bad.
Nice view. It looks like you have some weather moving off shore.
Have fun!
Getting visions of Dean turning into Dean from On The Road. Fun read. I’ll be expecting perky breasts to make an appearance soon.
Somehow, I doubt “perky” will apply.
I’d rather Dean from Supernatural
Is Cris Collinsworth the worst nfl announcer or what? I don’t know why but I just want him to shut up.
If you want him to shut up, and not make him shut up, you are a better man than I.
This is the first Sunday night game all season I get to watch through without having to quite drinking early and go to bed to be up at 4 am. Lets here it for vacation! Too bad I have to listen to that guy.
Yay! Vacation! Yay!. Is that what you had in mind?
NFL sent him to charm school when they gave him that commentator gig. If ya’all remember that hillbilly accent he had when he played then suddenly lost.
Yeah, he’s from Dayton. We kinda sound like that.
I hear the hillbilly, cuz I’m from somewhere else.
^ this ^
I don’t notice much of an accent and don’t mind accents. It is what he says and the amount of time he is saying something. STFU for a bit. I imagine people not from around here would say I have a more hillbilly accent.
Everybody likes to think I’m from Texas. I think it’s because I grew up with a lot of southern rock. I was born a ramblin man. Grew up at the beach in CA.
You’re just missing that touch of sophistication that comes from being lake-adjacent. Side note for those not in the CLE, I’m leery driving down Kinsman in the middle of the day (the rare times I’m even in the area). It’s an even worse area then MLK.
Daytonian = Briar who ran out of gas on the way to Detroit
Early 90s NYC *shudder*
This crawled out of my cerebral cortex when I read that.
I went in 1990 or so. It was NOTHING like it is now, nothing. I’m glad I got to see it that way and glad I survived.
That’s part 3.
My first visit was around 92. Moved here in 97. The changes have been gradual enough that only with hindsight I look back and think “Wow, it’s really changed.”
I look forward to the next installments.
timeloose, you’re in the Philly area right? I’ll be down Christmas through the following weekend and am looking to see if any Glibs want to meet.
I’m off from now until the new year. I’m 2 hours north is Philly.
Of philly.
But only an hour and a half north of pottstown, which would be the more specific area of glib themed debauchery.
We do talk about cooking a lot.
That’s why I love this place
Ah. I thought you were closer to the city. Though as Caput said, I’m suggesting Pottstown for reasons. I’ve probably given away enough details of my life. SP can send you my e-mail if you’re interested. Or I could just e-mail her and ask her to send it to you. I’ll do that.
I’m game for a potential visit. Let’s see what materializes. I have friends in the area I could crash at.
Excellent.
Lazy bastard! I drove an hour to meet OMWC and SP, 2 1/2 to meet Doc Anacreon…I only had to drive like 12 minutes to meet UCS though.
If Timeloose isn’t running a string of hooker elves and selling “Magic Corn” by the end of this I’m haz disappoint.
*Name Drop* I’ve met him. If that doesn’t happen, he’s ?.
Twenty bucks is twenty bucks…
I usually equate that phrase with an unexpected entry into a prostitution career.
Same as downtown.
That’s the origin and a inside joke between Dean and I.
It’s not prostitution if it is for “cab fare”.
Or if “trees” don’t end up being a metaphor for weed.
No metaphor. There will be some interesting twists in part 2.
Can I just say that I miss smoking in restaurants? Yes, I think I can.
Fuck off, Tulpa.
(did I get that right?)
Oh certainly!
Drew Carey agrees, fucking Tulpa!
Zwak has been here for a spell.
The rare times I get asked when traveling now I have to do a double take.
Those still exist I can take you to get a drink , food, and a smoke.
They do… but not here in Ohio for quite some time. This has also led to the death of the matchbook.
I remember visiting Cleveland and nobody on the hotel staff could even tell me where I could buy smokes. I had to ask some sketchy old dude hanging out at a bus stop. Because I knew that guy would know.
We still have cig machines in bars. They are 30 year old and have the match dispensers.
If anyone still needs to shop for Christmas and the people on your list have dry skin, get them backscratchers. I recently bought some, most AWESOME purchase since the hot tub
SP has an automatic backscratcher.
Me.
A little lower. Lower. Lower.
I am driving to the big city tomorrow and getting some of these from the only restaurant store around here to gift. They are awesome if you like tacos. Pre-fry tortilla in a pan with a bit of oil, place in rack, load up with whatever filling, add cheese, bake until as crispy as you like and top with slaw/salad/whatever you want. That process makes crispy yet chewy shells that are perfect in my opinion.
What is your big city?
Grand Junction.
The future home of the federal BLM offices which I understand has some beltway parasites a bit pissed off.
They moved the USDA HQ to KC, and most of its employees did not go with. There was mich weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth in the Swamp.
One of my neighbors works for USDA. She is not very sympathetic. She says they played poker with the wrong people.
Yeup. Out here in Flyover KC, we’re all wondering WTF is wrong with people who are pissy about taking a high salary to a very pretty, uncongested, and low-cost place.
DON’T YOU KNOW WHAT YOU PEOPLE COULD BUY HERE?!?!?
Very odd.
Wait. I think I mistead that. Your neighbor is not sympathetic to the workers who were mad and quit, or to the USDA for losing most of its employees?
I’m pretty sure the USDA doesn’t mind having to fill all those positions at a third of a DC salary.
And if you’re in agriculture, you should probably be where the stuff grows.
She’s not sympathetic to workers that wouldn’t move
Sweet. Something like that has been on my shopping list for a while. Even just to hold the Ortega taco shells or whatever for easier assembly.
Good news for those who like IPA’a (such as myself). It’s amazing how there was a turn around from the shortage a couple years back, and I don’t recall any government program to fix this.
Na zdravie!
Don’t give them any ideas, though… The best way to destroy both the quality and affordability of something is to have a government program to guarantee that every citizen has “equal access” to it.
Howdy! I’m burnt out, y’allins have fun now,
Hi Yusef!!!
Read my article tomorrow same bat time and same bat channel. There will be stories of malt liquor but no tall cans.
Hope things are improving.
I shall haha!
Fuji san is rocking it today.
https://imgur.com/a/2ytoiL8
Hmph – I was expecting smoke curling out of the top.
How often does Mt Fuji erupt?
Last erupted over three hundred years ago.
You realize that some people could figure out exactly where that picture was taken from using the references in-frame?
Station. Thousands use it everyday.
Station?
1200 Yen says it’s a soapland
Now I feel like watching a Shochiku movie.
Thanks for the story, Timeloose! Looking forward to the rest.
Thanks for giving me a forum. This tale has been boiling in my head for 30 years.
That Khalil Mack trade sure has done wonders for the Bears.
Since the stroke I’ll be headed to Vegas a lot more, I’m sick of begging, but getting a job right this moment is futile, still looking though,
https://www.gofundme.com/f/v8pdm-getting-to-arizona?utm_medium=copy_link&utm_source=customer&utm_campaign=p_na+share-sheet&pc_code=ot_co_dashboard_a&rcid=bb81eb0dba0f41bd8475597ce41b17d3
Facts I learned from this story:
1. “OK” sign as symbol of white supremacists was a 4chan troll
2. The circle game is different and has been around since at least 2000
3. Sometimes normal people get accused of being racist for using it
4. Racists sometimes get a free pass because they can claim it’s not racist
5. Even though it’s a troll, we can’t stop talking about it because racists are now everywhere
??
There is a way to win – Break the face any anyone who pulls that crap. Sooner or later, they stop doing it.
OK
Herpity derpity doo.
Of course it was.
This is the talking point that I’m getting really sick of. Back in the day, I met people who were proud of being in the klan, and would mention it to anyone with the right skin color. They usually wound up fairly alone, talking only to their fellow members. I can’t even imagine someone being openly a klan member today. If the racists are everywhere, it’s because you’ve expanded the definition of racist beyond the point of breaking.
So much this. It’s all in their heads.
And more than a little progjection.
Whatever
“The circle game is different and has been around since at least 2000”
I remember kids playing it in the 90s. My dad told me they played it in the 60s and 70s. Doesn’t take much work to figure that out. Journalism is dead.
I’m not used to being able to post while drinking Evan Willams Reserve on a work night. Vacation during the holidays, he’ll yah.
Prost!
Skool!
I’m hooked, Timeman. Love the biographies of successful businessmen. I know the next chapters are going to lead to how your success from selling Christmas trees moved you into competitive lumberjacking and becoming a wood products tycoon. I know this ’cause I read these rags to riches stories before and you da man. It gives me hope for my own kids. Can hardly wait ’til tomorrow’s expose of the NY Christmas tree racket.
There will be stories of the business aspect. Others from a darker side of town.
Hearst was a forest owner, hmmmmm
Another KC blow out. Their games are boring as pointed out last week.
I thought I was in good shape to win 3rd place and $50 (beer money) in my FF league, but SF and Garappolo screwed me 2 weeks in a row. Not thinking things through and grabbing the Colts for D as they faced a first time NfL start QB instead of the Redskins D has me 50 behind, and buying beer with my own money.
OT: just tried out a penny auction site for the first time. What a freakin scam. I was playing with house money, but I’ll not be using the rest of my credit.
QVC for millennials?
Something like that. I watched as the price inched closer and closer to MSRP and got bored watching people throw dollars at a chance to save what”ll end up being pennies.
Then again, I’m not much of a gambler…
When those first appeared like a decade ago I looked into it; there were claims the sites themselves bid up the price. I said, “And I oop” (did I do that right?)
sksksks
??
When I worked in credit card fraud prevention, I dealt with a dispute with one of those sites. Out of curiosity I started digging into the sites. Not much I could find on them. Digging though forums the most common theory among people is they run bots to drive up the bidding. Some people claimed they’d have a great deal then with last few seconds tons of bids would come in driving up the price to retail. Never bothered testing the site. Too good to be true always keeps me away.
That wouldn’t surprise me. People having been using “snipe” scripts on eBay for as long as there’s been an eBay to get the last bid in at the last microsecond. Granted, they aren’t eBay’s and it’s not quite the same (there are real people running the scripts to run up the price, but I have never participated in any auction I suspect is being sniped.
I had one where at the last second another person bid up to asking price at the last second while I was well below and top bid before. Then I got an e-mail from the e-bayer “That winning bid was some guy’s kid and he won’t pay, you can have it if you match his price” Fuck off!
Seriously. “Dude, how badly do you think I want it, anyway?”
I had a dude come to me and said his 13yo kid bought the R-rated movie I was selling and asked me to take it back and give him a refund because I’d sold it to a minor. I said no. “You let your kid use your account and your credit card. It is not my responsibility to watch your kid.” “You could have at least verified it!” “Keep control of your own kid. This is your problem, not mine.” “I’ll dispute the charge.” “You do that. See who Paypal sides with.”
Anyway, he gave me a nasty feedback. I gave one right back—that was when a seller could do that—and he took his feedback doen and Paypal sent me an email that said, “Don’t worry about it. We got this.”
Aside: Paypal has treated me very well over the last 20 years.
I KNEW IT! You support quasi-paranoid libertarian Gawker killer Peter Theil!
And I’d do it again, too!
Timeloose, I will read this as soon as the house settles down.
Thanks Mojeaux, Keep in mind this is the first time I’ve ever written anything that wasn’t a technical article or a paper. Part three is still in my mellon not on paper. So tomorrow will be a grind.
If anybody read my article from the other day, you might remember I mentioned an author named Johanna Lindsey. She was very important to me as a 15yo wannabe romance author. Anyway, she died today. ?
I hate to judge anyone else’s grief, BUT…2 months to announce the death of a bestselling author? ?
Oh, shit. I didn’t notice that! I was just too bummed by the announcement.
To be clear; I am wondering about the family’s motivations, not yours.
I know, but I am embarrassed I didn’t read it before posting.
I noticed a number of relatively C/D list famous people whose death is announced weeks to months afterwards.
Watching The Witcher. Enjoying it so far. I never read the books, but played the games. Apparently the shows story is based off the book, but the visual and character representation is off of the game. Cavill does a good Geralt.
Agreed.
I only watched the first episode, and I kept getting confused by who all the characters other than Geralt were. They didn’t set any of them properly. Took me a while to figure out the wizard was talking about the girl from the bar, then when they cut to the princess I was wondering if that was supposed to be a flashback, then whether her grandpa was supposed to be the queens husband or her dad…
Ya it wasn’t a good introduction but I pieced it all together and it’s easy to follow the next few episodes.
Different chair at my computer, this’ll take some time to get used to.
Does it feel different or is it a new chair?
Not a ‘new’ chair, but not the chair I’ve used at the computer for last 4 years. Small changes to my set-up can have big impacts. It screwed with my head for a while when I moved my computer from being on a south facing wall to a north facing wall. Shouldn’t make a difference, but it did. Must be that fungi shwing shit.
My god. I hope you make it through these trying times.
Thanks for your support in these trying times.
Your computer is supposed to be placed in such a way you are facing east when looking at it.
That’s just crazy talk.
Incorrect.
Better version.
Ha! I have just the slightest wisps of memories of that show.
Heinous.
I’ve had the exact same furniture in the exact same spot for 7 years. I really need a change.
Flashback: I used to drive my mom nuts by moving around the furniture in my bedroom every couple weeks. Like dresser in the middle of the room and the bed hidden behind it kind of shit.
Not every couple of weeks, but regularly. Did that bed behind the dresser too.
My bedroom furniture hasn’t moved since I bought my house, but that’s mainly because there’s no other good configuration. I too like to rearrange
Xmas music
https://youtu.be/UH0djS-LXhM
https://youtu.be/U7JZSnQNkmQ
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Declaration_of_the_Independence_of_Cyberspace
Aged like milk.
Judging by Google and Twitter this is being done in ways I am doubtful that Barlow would appreciate.
Other one. Gilmore.
Gilmore? Our Gilmore? Art Gilmore?
This one
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilmore_v._Gonzales
What is the source of that quote?
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/John_Gilmore
Ah I see.
mmmmm….The Net…mmm
Serenity Now!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24_Hours_in_Cyberspace
Huh…
That’s moral scold Tipper Gore.
Interesting that this declaration that this was made in a project that included the Veep and his wife of the administration whose law he was complaining about and said Veep was all about using the internet for the environment and education which ended up being two of the major things that destroyed Barlow’s dream.
Remember what I said about classical liberals and modern libertarians ignoring obvious trends and digging their heads in the sand while babbling about modern technology?
And when classical liberals weren’t digging their heads in the sand they were authoritarian tyrants who gave us the public school system and supported horrors like the Reign of Terror, The War in the Vendee, The Popish Plot executions, the Test Act and the Kulturkampf.
Legit LOL
That was a fun ride, Timeloose! I was vaguely (mis)remembering that 65th was one-way and went “Uh oh.” Yours was funnier.
Can’t wait for the next one.
https://www.aier.org/article/new-ideas-are-the-key-to-economic-development/
For a guy who supports new ideas, new ways of doing things and modernity he sure seems to complain a lot about modern ideas and new ideas and new ways of doing things. Notice how he openly calls the enviro desire to ban air travel “modern”.
Well, it’s “modern” in the sense of current events and the morphing that ecological arguments have taken on. We’ve been flying commercially (in airplanes) for what…a centruty, give or take? People fighting it it, en mass for ‘the environment’, is less so.
So, 20th century until now “modern”.
Well that is the problem. Is “modernity” just what the majority believe at this very moment? Or a what a majority of a certain elite groups belief at this very moment?
Is there are an arbitrary cutoff where modernity begins and that will never change?
So you are saying that there are some old ideas that are okay and some modern ideas that are terrible?
Winston, I have largely stayed away from criticizing you and/or your posts. I typically have nothing I hold against you, even if I think you are begging the question, so to speak, with some of the analysis you give post.
That said, I have not one clue as to how you came up with the following:
At no point did I offer up any type of opinion about “okay” and “terrible”–especially in the sentence you quoted. The only thing I tried to do was to postulate a possible definition of what the word ‘modern’ could mean to someone using it in the way the original author did.
It seems like you are intentionally trying to straw-man me with what you said. If you thought I was making the argument you have put in my figurative mouth, but weren’t sure, why didn’t you ask me to clarify what I was saying? I would have easily told you that I was only trying to gauge a definition of modern by using a timeline for a very specific application of a specific technology, and for the cultural push-back that it is receiving.
I said nothing about better/worse, good/bad. okay/terrible. As a matter of fact, I think you asked a good rhetorical question about arbitrary cutoff time for that term; one I hadn’t pondered. But, I cannot figure out why you put that other argument on me, since I never even broached it.
That should be “give/post”.
Sorry Digby I wasn’t trying to critique you with that remark but the author of the article.
I was speaking that guys like him appear to define “modernity” as things he likes and assume that “new ideas” won’t really undermine the old ideas of the past he supports.
We’re good, Winston–no harm, no foul.
Sorry Digby I didn’t mean to come off so harsh.
Accepted, Winston. 🙂
I am very fascinated by the whole “creative destruction” and “new ideas”, etc. aspect which I think has some problems since it can easily be converted to mean nothing more than [Insert Current Year]. I mean the Classical Liberals loved to argue that they were the advocates of New Modern Ideas until about 1900 when the socialists and progressives argued that they were the advocates of New Modern Ideas to devastating effect.
TBH, I haven’t given it that much thought, as I tend to reduce things like this to, “As long as it doesn’t involve Government ordering around citizens, AND, no one’s rights get violated”. Overly simple, maybe.
That said, the power of language to influence others’ thinking is worthy of study, especially when others show an interest in limiting what you ‘are allowed to do’.
I think you are on to something, in regards to the words used in topics like that.
I’m out ya’ll. Hope you enjoyed part one. Part two Will be tomorrow at the same time.
Thanks
My first trip to NYC was a HS cultural tour in January of ’78. We stayed in the Edison Hotel in midtown, adjacent to the Edison Theater, at which was playing Oh, Calcutta! (which we did not see.) As I recall, the area around Times Square was plastered with flyers for “Stopless Topless.”
Good times.
Thatcher, Reagan and Giuliani ruined everything…
That is a fantastic glibs screen name.
It’s all yours if you want it. : )
Don’t nobody want to see that…
Adopted by you in 3…2…1
::AHEM::
You’ve seen the face, so, you know I’m correct in that assessment.
It’s funny how easily those days could come back. Conditions here are eerily similar to the late 60s/early 70s – with Deblasio playing the role of Lindsey, who also spent like a drunken sailor and all but encouraged the city to fall apart around him. All it will take is another 70s-style economic backslide and Times Square Disney is back to peep-shows again.
Fuck Lindsay
And fuck Giuliani. Lindsay could use Medicare like the peons. And why should ceremonial posts have city provided healthcare anyways?
Forget it, Gustave–it’s NYC.
Jesus…. I didn’t know about any of that. Some animals really are more equal.
You know which other New York Mayor was a Republican turned Democrat?
Dagummit! I have some trump audio, but no golden quotes to build an episode around, holiday stuff interfering with the process… *screams something about imp peaches*
Nectarines or GTFO
Just to be clear to the internets, pointing out that the bad guy has a plan that in retrospect can be beaten is not a plot hole. And like wise, pointing out that the hero’s plan is bad also isn’t a plot hole. Only if the outcome is not supported by the facts of the movie itself is it a plot hole.
Your comment is a plot hole.
YOU’RE A PLOT HOLE!!
Sorry! Sorry! I got carried away there. Bad writing, and all…
Plotholio!
Star Wars scripts in my bunghole!
Ha!!
How did Indiana Jones survive that sub in Raiders of the Lost Ark?
How did the Nazis put so many soldiers in Egypt in 1936?
Who killed the chauffeur in The Big Sleep?
“My phone broke. And I can’t find my house key. And I don’t know what time school finishes today. Just wait at home all day so you can let me in.”
How do you fire a 10 year old?
Double-digits, amirite?
Just tell her, “If you wanna see triple digits, you’ll change that attitude!”
Knuckle sandwich for bento tomorrow.
Latch-key kid AND boot to the head!
I like it…
Happy Festivus!
Duly noted!
So Wifey just bought another “Thank You” card for something that happened weeks ago. I’m edging into starting to really worry, now. She’s always been a little daffy with the details but things are getting noticeable. I know she’s overworked from the side biz but this is starting to scare the shit outta me.
I linked this page from the Alzheimer’s Association’s website after your comment in the wee hours of Friday night/Saturday morning mentioning your concern, but my comment was several hours later, so I bet you didn’t see it. BTDT with my mother. Best wishes!
Same with my dad, GT.
Good luck, Festus.
Thanks guys! I hope that she’s just a little verklempt and anything I say right now might seem like gas-lighting. I do not want this to happen.
She left the oven on tonight.
: (
Fuck it. This piece always brings me joy https://youtu.be/MnJGfl3afEU
Why does Mozilla keep trying to force the godawful ‘tabs on top’ nonsense that chrone and edge use. You know, the layout that makes it impossible to move a window once you open too many dabs because there’s nowhere to grab it and instead you end up tearing off a tab? It’s the wrong place for them. Tabs belong just above the content, and below the rest of the UI except for scrollbars and the status bar (which they’ve also discarded uncerimoniously)
I’m sorry this is happening to you.
Because Mozilla and the rest decided to be evil? I can’t figure hide nor hair and wind up with Windows 10 on my lap top. You guys know, I don’t.
I’m wondering if it only just seems like the only features they remove are the ones I use because I don’t notice the rest.
But I’m generally opposed to massive UI changes. Doubly so when those radically shift the workflow towards a method I don’t use to interact with the system (ie, mobile ‘inspired’ designs wasing huge amounts of screen real estate and showing less information)
You know what always happens? The worst possible thing that could possibly happen. It’s my one true talent.