In 1988, in his last Abstract, Bill James wrote an essay called “Revolution”. I would link to it, but our copyright laws mean that a 31 year old essay is not yet in the public domain, nor never will be. In it, James suggested freeing the minor leagues from their farm status and having them compete as independent leagues. Some would accept their levels as minor leagues, some would try to build up and from a 3rd major league, some would fold. It would allow more teams to exist as every town could have a team and compete at their proper level, with proper levels of pay (none to very little). There was a lot of good stuff in the article but when I was reading it, in April 1988, I was struck by what he left out…relegation and promotion. There was no way for a team not in the majors to get there, other than expansion. It was the obvious flaw in the article. It is one I have been thinking about ever since, and despite tinkering around, my solution keeps coming back to the same one I thought of 31 years ago.
Ignoring the relegation/promotion question for now, why would we want free minor leagues? Have you been to a minor league game? The decision making is less than spectacular, but it is because the managers literally aren’t playing to win. They are rewarded for developing players, not winning games. If that means playing Joey Votto in left field instead of 1B, because the Reds don’t have an opening at first, then so be it (this is not a hypothetical. And yes, he was a far worse outfielder than you can possibly imagine). Your AAA team has made the playoffs? Great, we will call your best player up to the majors so he can pinch hit once a week in September.
There is no real rooting for your home team. At best, if you are a fan of their affiliated major league team, you get to see players that you will be cheering for later one. As a Reds fan and Cardinals hater, when Louisville was a Cards franchise, I had trouble cheering for my local team. Fortunately, they switched to the Reds (with a brief detour thru Milwaukee). If the teams were independent, they would be playing to win. And attendance would go up, not down, in the post season.
For those not fans of European sports, what is relegation and promotion? I will use English soccer as my example, as it is the best known to American, but I am sure Pie can fill us in on how it works differently in Romania. At the end of the season, the worst teams from one league are relegated down to the next lowest league, and the best teams from that league come up. For example, the bottom 3 (18th thru 20th) in the English Premier League are relegated to the Championship League, and the top 3 (actually top 2, plus a playoff winner of teams 3-6) are promoted from the Championship to the Premier League. Below the Championship is League 1 and League 2. Below them is the National Conference, and then it starts getting interesting. At that point, instead of a straight 1 to 1 correspondence, we get branching, as the leagues form “The Pyramid”. Below the Conference is Conference North and South. Below them are 3 leagues, Northern, Southern, and Isthmian. And below them are more and more branches. At the lowest levels you get county leagues. Its just neighborhood teams playing against each other, with better ones moving up and playing against the other better teams. Think of it as like A-league vs B-league softball.
If you really care, here is a nice image:
https://englishsoccerguide.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/english_league_pyramid.gif
Now that we are all on board, what would the American system look like. First, we have to accept that 1969-1976 had the correct setup for MLB. Each league had 12 teams, divided into 6 eastern and 6 western teams, with 18 games played in division and 12 played out of division with no interleague play.
Perfection! Then it all got screwed up by letting Toronto in the AL.
While we can’t go back, we can replicate that. We will expand the majors by 18 teams, and form two levels of 24 teams. The Major Leagues D1 will have 4 6-team divisions: NL-East, NL-West, AL-East, AL-West playing the schedule they did in the 70s. Major League D2 will also have 4 6-team divisions, but will save on travel costs. There will be two leagues, the Eastern League and the Western League, each with a National and American division. They will play the same 18-12 breakdown, but wont cross over to the other half of the country.
Sixth place in each D1 division will be relegated to the appropriate division in D2. The winners of divisions in D2 will move up. Below is my initial layout. I chose the 18 teams from current minor league baseball (17 of the 18 are in AAA) based on 2019 attendance and not being located within the DMA of a major league team. The 6 MLB teams in D2 were based on geography and 2019 records. For assigning minor league teams to National or American, I mostly went with their historical affiliations with some adjustments for balance. Its just an example. The west starts at Louisiana, Arkansas, Missouri, Illinois, and the UP. And whatever that is in Canada – Albertoba or something.
Here is your 2020 breakdown:
| NL-East | NL-West | AL-East | AL-West |
| Atlanta | St Louis | NY Yankees | Minnesota |
| Washington | Milwaukee | Tampa Bay | Houston |
| NY Mets | Chi Cubs | Boston | Oakland |
| Philadelphia | LA Dodgers | Cleveland | Texas |
| Cincinnati | Arizona | Toronto | Chicago WS |
| Pittsburgh | San Fran | Baltimore | LA Angels |
| EL-National | WL-National | EL-American | WL-American |
| Miami | Colorado | Detroit | Kansas City |
| Louisville | San Diego | Toledo | Seattle |
| Indianapolis | Iowa | Columbus | Round Rock |
| Durham | Sacramento | Charlotte | Las Vegas |
| Buffalo | Paso | Rochester | Salt Lake City |
| Scranton | Albany | Nashville | Oklahoma City |
That is a start of the system, we could keep the rest of the minors around as farm teams, instead of each MLB team having about 6, each of the 48 would have 3. But once we go down this path, this won’t last. There will be more expansion off the bottom of this, We will start the American Baseball Pyramid. I don’t know exactly how it would develop, but I think it would start with 4 regional leagues, Northeast, Southeast, Central, and West Coast. Maybe 5, with a Midwest league also, Yeah, probably so. I don’t know how they would decide the 4 to promote, so maybe it would be 4. But whatever, you get the idea. And below that would be 8 or so leagues, and below that state level leagues. Below that city level leagues, where neighborhoods play against neighborhoods – probably much shorter seasons with a game or two thru the week and then weekend games on Friday, Saturday, Sunday.
This would give a place for that guy you played little league with, who was a AAA all-star and then spent 2 weeks in the Majors with an ERA over 10, a place to continue to play (this is also not a hypothetical). Now, there are two types of guys in the minors, young kids who have potential to be major leagues, and guys kept around because they help the young guys learn and may be a coach someday. As soon as you lose that prospect status, you are generally out the door. They don’t want a 32 year old at A ball. But with an independent system, if that 32 year old can help the A league team win and get promoted, he is worth having around. And they will still develop the 19 year old, so they can sell him to a Major League team and rake in the profits.
So why hasn’t this already happened? It might have in the 19th century. It would have prevented all the failed competing major league attempts, like the Players League and the Federal League and the American League. The PCL was very close to a 3rd major league and might have become one if the Dodgers and Giants hadn’t moved west. There were a few players who refused Major League contracts to stay in the PCL.
Now it won’t happen for the obvious reason: $$$. I team dropping to MLB-D2, or even lower, would lose out on lots of money. With the cost of a team, owners can put up with being bad, they can’t put up with being in a lower league. And the second monetary reason is leverage. Although expansion has put a stop to most of it, teams can get shiny new stadiums out of cities by threatening to leave. Get Las Vegas a D2 team and the threat goes away. Vegas isn’t going to try to become the new home of the Twins, they can just spend money on players and get promoted.
The system seems great to libertarians, the best 24 franchises will rise to the top and bad owners will watch their teams fall. Good fan bases will support their team, providing the money for teams to rise to their appropriate level and stay there. Bad fan bases will get what they deserve. And we can also see why crony capitalist wouldn’t like it.
So yet again, I end an article with a section on why my awesome idea isn’t feasible.
Comments
268 responses to “Relegation/Promotion in Baseball”
“Now it won’t happen for the obvious reason: $$$. ”
And $$$ is the best reason. Unless you’re a socialist.
Unless you’re a socialist. – I do have my suspicions with this guy
I know nothing of baseball. That being said, I have no opinion on this as I know nothing of baseball.
But because some trolling is in order, I will leave this here
https://www.bball-index.com/laker-check-in/
There’s always that moment late in the season when the bottom teams start trying out all their prospects and trading off good players. This would change that up too.
MLS was probably the best chance at introducing relegation/promotion to America and now that it is firmly entrenched as a traditional Americanzied league, we will probably never see it over here.
They need to implement the minor league playoff system. For those of you unfamiliar, the season is split into halves and the winner of each half gets into the playoffs.
There is no real rooting for your home team. At best, if you are a fan of their affiliated major league team
*looks at Boise Hawks and Carolina Mudcats hats, clothing, and branded merchandise, can’t remember the current affiliate of either one*
Nope.
The Lake County Captains appear to have a fanbase as well, but they’re also the A league affiliate of the Cleveland Indians, same with the Akron Rubber Ducks. I know the Monsters (IHL) have a dedicated fanbase. I think the only minor league team in the area that I’m aware of that I’ve never seen someone wearing the gear for is the Lake Erie Crushers who play in the Frontier League.
I stopped watching when they went on strike,
Interesting read though, thanks!
Have you been to a minor league game? The decision making is less than spectacular, but it is because the managers literally aren’t playing to win. They are rewarded for developing players, not winning games. If that means playing Joey Votto in left field instead of 1B, because the Reds don’t have an opening at first, then so be it (this is not a hypothetical. And yes, he was a far worse outfielder than you can possibly imagine). Your AAA team has made the playoffs? Great, we will call your best player up to the majors so he can pinch hit once a week in September.
I’ve seen far too many people state that minor league baseball is great. I went this year because a top prospect had just been promoted. The tickets were cheaper than a major league game, but I still had to pay for parking and the food prices were still way overpriced. The baseball was…well, not exactly elite.
I love going to the games, but you see decisions that are being made for the best interest of development, not in the best interest of winning. It takes some of the fun out of it.
Would there be stadium requirement s as teams moved up in the leagues or could you conceivable have some local podunks win their conference a few seasons in a row and suddenly you’re playing a ‘major league’ game in the field out behind Old Man Sterkels farm?
How awesome would it be to have the NY Yankees playing against the Peoria Chiefs in Peoria, IL?
English soccer has requirements. But they are fairly loose, so you get teams with relatively small stadiums promoted up, and a decade or so ago Man City was in the 3rd level for a year. Also, Glasgow Rangers had to restart at the 4th tier in Scotland, and that was hilarious. The other 4th tier teams made bank, selling 5k tickets instead of 1k. And Rangers would pack in 50k in their home games.
It’s why the FA cup is fun (I won’t go as far to say the same for Carabao), but I like seeing a big team play in a 4k seat stadium with more mud than grass.
Agreed.
ditto – I love the first few rounds of the FA Cup. Too bad it eventually just turns into Premiere League teams.
Liverpool is welcome to bow out early.
Now you’re just being ridiculous.
Everton @ Liverpool in FA Cup Rnd 3, so I am all in favor of this.
Classic example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOoXsZBwSUg
Bonus 1: one of the best FA Cup goals of all time.
Bonus 2: 70s sideburns
Barcodes wearing red. Do they still have those as road uniforms?
The Newcastle header was a nice goal, but that first Hereford goal was amazing.
Interestingly, there are often problems at the lower levels There were several teams back in the 90s when England first introduced automatic promotion/relegation from D4 (League 2) to the Conference (National League) where the team scheduled to be promoted didn’t meet the stadium requirements.
And there was a pissing match in Scotland just this year: https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/bonnyrigg-rose-denied-promotion-lowland-league-bid-sfa-licence-rejected-547124
They actually submitted a further appeal in June and were granted the license.
AFC Bournemouth has the smallest stadium in the Premier League, at just over 11k seats.
Everyone else is over 20k, with the top 7 being over 50k.
The one EPL game I went to they asked at the ticket booth, “which team are you following?”
Cause I’m going to start a riot.
Nice Article robc.
I Enjoy soccer, and i think the table system, relegation and promotion, are part of why. Each Season is a fight to keep in your league or advance to the next, and each game has an impact on your league score. The Number of points scored comes into play to break ties and each team in a league plays each team multiple times.
Football (american) is a fun sport to watch. I think that, however, adopting some of these things can make any sport even more enjoyable to watch.
Yes. Relegation and promotion makes every game that much more important.
Also, one of the current problems with just about every major sports is too many teams and too many games. Expanding the league (again) is just throwing gas on the fire.
I do bitch about this a lot, but seriously, 162 games? 82 for NBA and NHL?
MLB should be…somewhere around 112 games. NBA and NHL should adopt the play everyone home and away model plus limit the number of teams in the playoffs.
I’d rather shrink the number of teams in a league before I shortened the season.
Look back at the NBA teams in the ’80s and ’90s and you are struck by how many good players the championship teams had. They had 4 or 5 superstars on a team. Now if you have 3 superstars you are a contender.
And if you are going to limit the number of games, don’t forget about pre-season games. Some local guy here was ranting this year about how much more interesting it would be to fans if instead of a pre-season game they had televised co-practices. His thesis was that watching an actual practice that was held with two teams would teach fans a lot more about the intricacies of the game, be safer for the players and the fans would see way more of the starters than a pre-season game.
Oops, the co-practice thing was for the NFL. Forgot to point that out.
That’s not a bad idea, the NFL is still going to fuck it all up though by adding more regular season games or by expanding the playoffs.
Or by adding a team in London, England?
God what a bad idea. They keep trying to make that shit happen, though. If you’re going to expand the NFL outside of the US I think Mexico is the natural choice. I mean, there are some complicating factors, obviously, but still, at least we’re talking about the same time zones. And since the NFL money comes from television, that should be a primary consideration.
The NFL revenue stream that boggles my mind is the draft. How did they manage to turn that into a money maker?
The fact that they can charge the bobos $$ to attend a “draft party” at the team HQ (and charge them stadium priced beers) is beyond my ability to comprehend.
By games, I mean it all. Preseason, regular season, and playoffs. Also, neutral locations only if there’s some kind of natural disaster or such that prevents a game from being played at either team’s home. No more exhibition games, particularly ones on other continents.
Why won’t anyone think about the poor, poor, poor minor league players who need our help in not being exploited?
It is pretty shitty though that MLB is exempt from minimum wage laws.
……when literally every business should be exempt from minimum wage laws”
Well yes, I thought that was assumed around here.
Chris, you
ignorant slutlying hack.Speaking during an event honoring the First Amendment at the Newseum in Washington D.C., Fox News anchor Chris Wallace accused President Donald Trump of assaulting freedom of the press.
Wallace said, “I believe that President Trump is engaged in the most direct, sustained assault on freedom of the press in our history.”
He continued, “He has done everything he can to uncut the media to try and delegitimize us. I think his purpose is clear to raise doubts when we report critically about him and his administration that we can be trusted.”
He added, “Let’s be honest the president’s attacks have done some damage. A Freedom Forum Institute poll this year found 29 percent of Americans think the First Amendment goes ‘too far.’ And 77 percent say ‘fake news’ is a serious threat to our democracy.”
He concluded, “The bottom line is we’ve seen Presidents come and go. We will endure. So will Freedom of the Press.”
“He has done everything he can to uncut the media to try and delegitimize us. I think his purpose is clear to raise doubts when we report critically about him and his administration that we can be trusted.”
Saying your a meanie face => Constitutional violation
Prosecuting whistle-blowers and investigating journalists under espionage act => Best President of our modern times.
Right, but the 29% of people who are anti-1A are probably thinking of “hate speech” and so forth, while a significant part of the 77% are talking about the incredibly blatant bias of the major news media, Chris. Including yourself. It’s not the President who did the damage, he’s just the most public and highest ranking person to call you clowns out for what most people have believed for decades now.
Speaking during an event honoring the First Amendment at the Newseum in Washington D.C., Fox News anchor Chris Wallace accused President Donald Trump of assaulting freedom of the press.
This is why I can’t take it seriously when people say Fox News is right-wing or the opposite of MSNBC. Some of Fox New’s opinion people like Hannity are hard right, but their anchors are usually middle ground. Could you imagine an anchor at CNN or MSNBC saying something like this about Obama?
Fox is only right-wing in comparison to the varying degrees of left that dominates the news media. It’s a “tallest midget” sort of thing.
We have one neocon outlet, several flat out socialist outlets, and a few hard left, not quite tankie outlets. What is there to preserve in our media?
Here’s my problem with these media people: They act like they didn’t get caught colluding with the Democrat Party in the last election. They act like there hasn’t been a regular pattern of them running sensational anti-Trump stories that are eventually debunked. They still act like they are honest and respectable.
My dearly departed father-in-law loved to attend minor league games. He would sit behind the dugout and heckle the away team.
I’m not sure he even kept track of the actual game.
Sorry to go OT so soon, but i thought this part of the OIG report was actually very funny and just interesting. I know it looks long, but it is well worth the read.
Footnote 313:
313 The Source Closing Communication document included the following: “Was the individual aware of his/her status as a CHS? Yes.” As we described in Chapter Four, Steele told us he was not a CHS for the FBI and was never advised by Handling Agent 1 that he was a CHS-a claim that Handling Agent 1 disputes.
OIG Report pg 173-174
Any emphasis is mine.
Who were those clients again?
Ok. Look i know it’s long, but it shouldn’t take yall 50 min to read through it.
All I see is Corney.
Too much corn in your salsa?
so it’s inappropriate for the FBI to violate the Hatch Act by announcing an investigation within 90 days of an election but the FBI should’ve announced an investigation within 90 days of an election. is that what Steele + Dems + FusionGPS told Horowitz?
Sorry to go OT
It’s ok. No one actually watches/likes baseball anyway. It’s the Hawaiian pizza of sports.
I did/do. I have a yearly subscription to MLB At Bat in case I ever get my DIY mojo back.
The Royals world series runs were a great time. Also I found it exhausting, watching nearly every night. I’ll probably forget what it was like by the time they make it back in 30 years…
That is when I learned how to watch baseball. Mr Mojeaux taught me as he is a Dodgers fan. He converted me to baseball. I converted him to football (and now he’s a zealot).
Australian rules football or GTFO
Pro/rel would require the leagues to give up some power. Not gonna happen.
I can’t blame the owners either.
“Right now, my major league franchise is worth $1B. You want me to gamble that my franchise might get dropped one level and only be worth $500M? Yeah, not gonna happen”
Although, watching the greedy shitstain Pohlad kids lose that much value if the Twins dropped to that second tier because they never open their payroll up for first class pitching would make me so happy. (Even more infuriating because their dad Carl Pohlad swindled us Hennepin county residents into building him a new stadium because they absolutely needed those revenues for a competitive payroll)
As I pointed out (using the Twins as a specific example), if every city has a team (or teams) in the system, the ability to demand a new stadium goes way down (not to zero, as the argument becomes “we can’t stay up without…”).
pbbbbbt! Like I’m going to read that far into an article.
I made it as far as seeing that you split up the Twins and the Royals. That is one of my favorite rivalries (because KC broke my heart a couple times in the early ’80s by edging the Twinkies out in late August).
I mostly agree with your points (after sissying out and going back to see what you said). I still think that the owners would be able to push cities for new stadiums. After all if they don’t have that new stadium, their payroll won’t be able to keep up with their competition and they will fall to the basement division. Or, Vegas can tell their rubes that they have to build a new stadium so that they can win the basement division and become major league.
Stadiums are one of the things that chaps my hide a LOT. I think your plan would help in that regard, but I’m still too pessimistic that the fat cats wouldn’t still find ways to fleece the public.
I propose a Constitutional Amendment: No public money may be used to build, repair, remodel or maintain any stadium, ampitheatre, or arena.
Wouldn’t work. Just one more thing in the Constitution that would be ignored. The penumbra that is constantly obscuring the Constitution would warp the phrase “No public funds will ever be spent on a” into “No public funds will be spent unless Congress passes a special exemption”.
Think how happy Congressmen would be if they could hire out their vote on exemptions like that.
Minneapolis has a clear statute that says any plan of more than $10M for a stadium MUST pass a referendum. The Twins and the Vikings were both able to bypass that by having the state legislature pass a bill approving the stadiums that had language in it that nullified that city ordinance.
Trump’s Popularity Surges After Nation Learns He May Have Obstructed Congress
As soon as it was revealed that Trump may have slowed the legislative branch from getting any work done, Americans praised Trump for his patriotic service. Trump’s popularity saw a huge spike in national polls, putting him in the 80% approval range for the first time ever. Support was bipartisan, as Republicans were happy he was stopping the House and Democrats were happy that he was stopping the Senate. Libertarians were smoking weed and didn’t seem to understand the question.
But what were the glibertarians doing? We know you are watching us!!
Being glib?
Hating everyone regardless?
Well…. That was helpful.
Salon.com has a lead story saying the Senate trial will be a sham (I did not read the story).
So the media is ramping up to spin the eventual failure to remove the president.
If the Senate takes up trial it will be an absolute disaster for the Dems. Right up to Election Day all of their skeletons are going to be dancing around on center stage. I can’t believe how stupid the D’s are being. Desperation breeds bad decisions I suppose.
“We cant beat Trump in a straight-up election so we will ‘peach fowtyfie! and make certain he wins in the biggest landslide in history”
Brilliant!
OT: I am so done with people today.
Thats how Hitler got started.
[insert a wildly inappropriate comeback here]
Become a misanthrope and be done with people all day everyday.
I love people usually.
When I don’t leave my house.
My line is “I don’t like to get out much because every time I do it reminds me why I don’t like to get out much.”
About a week and half ago I went to the local store to get cigarettes. Supposed to be a completely eventless errand that lasts ten minutes, right?
In the middle of nowhere, woods on both sides of the highway for a mile and a half in both directions, there were ambulances and police cars, lights on, on both sides of the road. As I slowly crept past them I made the mistake of glancing over to where everyone was gathered. The emergency personnel were gathered around a middle aged woman who was on her knees cradling what appeared to be a teenage girl that I assume her daughter. The daughter was limp as a wet noodle, arms kinda flopping around as the older woman was rocking back and forth and screaming at the top of her lungs. The emergency persons, paramedics included were all standing still as statues and staring at their shoes.
Fuck. Just fuck. I really could have gone all day without seeing that. Why do I have to see shit like that? After my errand I went home, drew the curtains and locked the doors.
Before anyone asks, no, I never found out what happened. I don’t want to know.
I make it a point to not rubberneck for that very reason. I’m curious as hell generally speaking, but there are some things I don’t want to risk seeing unless I have to.
I will stop complaining now.
Funeral by Phoebe Bridgers (not Old Man Music)
I’m singing at a funeral tomorrow
For a kid a year older than me
And I’ve been talking to his dad, it makes me so sad
When I think too much about it I can’t breathe
And I have this dream where I’m screaming underwater
While my friends are all waving from the shore
And I don’t need you to tell me what that means
I don’t believe in that stuff anymore
Jesus Christ, I’m so blue all the time
And that’s just how I feel
Always have and I always will
I always have and always will
I have a friend I call
When I’ve bored myself to tears
And we talk until we think we might just kill ourselves
But then we laugh until it disappears
And last night I blacked out in my car
And I woke up in my childhood bed
Wishing I was someone else, feeling sorry for myself
When I remembered someone’s kid is dead
Jesus Christ, I’m so blue all the time
And that’s just how I feel
Always have and I always will
I always have and always will
And it’s 4 A.M., again
And I’m doing nothing
Again
So you literally can’t even?
Correct. I am unable to even.
Can I be done with conference calls for the year? That would make me a happier person…
That’s me pretty much every day within ten minutes of walking out my front door. If I stay inside it usually takes an hour or two. Exposure to news media and popular culture tends to aggravate it. Ironically, I’m not a misanthrope, but I do have reasonable standards that the general public (and sometimes my own family) seem to find difficult to meet on a consistent basis.
You could start wearing a belt with Vel.. err… hook and loops closure instead of an old timey buckle. I just started and, while it wont help you with dealing with people, you pants will fit perfectly no matter how much you do or don’t have to poop.
Keep your head up and let the world know they can’t get you down Mojeaux.
I was obliged to flip of a cryptogenarian in a behemoth luxury pickup (those 2 words should not be in the same sentence together) because he wanted the parking spot next to me amd couldn’t wait until I was actually in my car to park.
This has sent me on full-blown monkey tilt in the past. People screwing around in cars tend to do that, especially when they’re behaving carelessly and just expecting everyone around them to accommodate them and compensate for their stupidity. I get a little Punisher about that kind of thing. My dad used to throw bricks at cars that sped down our street; I’m not there yet, but I have definitely confronted drivers in parking lots.
This was AFTER I had parked (before going into the store), and the lady next to me opened her car door and slammed my door but good. WHILE I WAS IN IT. There was plenty of room.
This is a new-to-me car and now I have a scratch on the door. If it was my beater, I’d have been “whatevs.” But she put a good scratch on it. She was very apologetic, and I’ve done that before (not to that extent) but what the fuck, lady. Be more fucking careful.
And then Banana Peel Boy tried to ease past my open door with my body in the way like he was going to make it.
…and then you got $500 from her to fix it, right?
She looked like she was about to burst into tears. I didn’t have the heart to scream at her.
#BadMisanthropeBad
I’m a pretty bad driver and don’t normally care all that much about other drivers’ transgressions against me because I’m probably up to my eyeballs in karmic debt.
However, in the last month or so, I’ve had this happen twice and it made me insane.
Pull into a busy parking lot. Hey, someone is backing out, so I’ll just wait for them to leave and then I can pull in. Everything is normal and cool.
As soon as I turn to pull in, I see some jackass who was on the opposite side of the guy who just left and is now trying to drive straight out through the newly vacated spot. They must not want to try the always tricky “backing up” maneuver.
So you end up half way into the spot only to find some jackass taking up about a third of your spot. You both stop and then the jerk makes a motion to you like YOU should be the one to backup so they can finish pulling through.
WTF? One time the jerk did give up and put their car in reverse after I shook my head. The other time the guy was going to stay strong and continue arguing, so I just put my car in park and went into the store. That guy rolled down his window and asked me what I thought I was doing. I just flipped him the bird and left. No money in arguing with jerks.
Jimbo you are from the upper midwest, but I’ll let you in on a little secret.
There’s a button hidden in your steering wheel. When someone does something stupid, you press it for about 90 seconds.
In the rest of the world, its intended to instill enough annoyance in the listener that they stop doing stupid shit. But here in MN, it is a super-power. You see, it makes all sorts of people look. And what does a native MN’er hate?
Ok, yes, zesty food. But other than zesty food, what does a MN’er hate? People looking and judging them.
Remember Jimbo, if the horn isn’t working, you just aren’t using it long enough yet.
Uffda. I’m married to a Korean. Believe me, I know what a horn is.
Horn = Korean Brake Pedal.
Why slow down when you can honk at someone to make them get out of your way?
Walking to work I was almost hit in the crosswalk by an older woman in a newer Mercedes who, not wanting to wait in her lane to make a left turn further up the street, drove down the wrong side of the street to turn into a bank. When I say she almost hit me, I mean she would’ve hit me if I hadn’t jumped out of the way. I threw my coffee at her. Sadly, it was winter and her windows were up.
A few months later, I was almost hit by a young woman driving probably 35 down a narrow street who didn’t plan on stopping at the stop sign at the intersection even if I happened to be there. She, however, I was able to catch with a punch to her window. I didn’t chase her down, but I really, really thought about it.
It’s insane how people act when they’re in cars. I swear, I think something about having that layer of glass makes them think the outside world is just another television show or something. Also, people here are terrible.
I sometimes think it’s the soundproofing and good surround sound stereos.
Yeah, you don’t see that kind of thing from people in convertibles, oddly enough.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/dec/11/senate-committee-passes-bipartisan-bill-stop-trump-withdrawing-nato
“Senate committee passes bipartisan bill to stop Trump withdrawing from Nato”
Christ, what assholes
I am not keeping up lately. Is Trump talking about withdrawing from NATO? If so, he has my vote.
“Senator Tim Kaine, the draft legislation’s lead Democratic sponsor, said it was a response to fears that the Trump administration is actively considering withdrawal.”
Ah, so another imaginary booger man.
no
If he wasn’t before, he should be now…
Trump could go “full isolationist” and withdraw from the 70-year-old North Atlantic alliance.
The HORROR
Obviously grounds for impeachment.
Please tell me that we will dynamite every NATO base as we withdraw from NATO. No way I want to leave those bases in Germany intact for those mooches to move into. Pull all the copper out, raze every building, plow every runway. Salting the earth is optional.
That does not, in fact, work very well. I tried.
We could let a couple of the families I used to go to school with live there for a few years. Nothing will destroy a property like 3 generations of welfare-dependent meth-using rednecks.
Plus, they’ll strip out the copper for us. It is their folk way.
Some of them are owned by the host country, depends on the country really, although I do like your moxie.
Let’s just invade Germany again. Honestly, we need a nice morality boost. All those long drawn out wars that we are losing is not convincing Americans that they just got to war a little harder. Conquering Germany would be easy peasy. Who is going to stop us? France? LOL
*MORALE BOOST
certainly not *morality*
It would certainly be better scenery that what the military seen in recent years.
And the beer scene is a little better too. Talk about a boost to morale.
Oktoberfest!
How are they going to stop you? Send in the police?
Sting might slow them down a bit, since nobody wants to stand so close to him.
*thunderous applause*
“Presidents have sometimes wanted to go to war and Congress has said no, but if you’ve hardly had a situation where Congress was wanting to go to war and a president said no,” the Virginia senator said. “You could potentially foresee that here, although frankly, my worry about this president is more that he will blunder us into a war we shouldn’t be in.”
Go Fuck yourself Kaine
citation needed.
Found my own real quick. https://www.cfr.org/blog/has-congress-ever-denied-presidents-request-authorize-military-force
Congress hasn’t refused war since 1917.
Truly the worst person to ever hold the office.
Didn’t Madison reluctantly accept the Declaration of War that Congress passed to start the War of 1812?
Sources familiar with him have suggested he likes fucking children.
Damnit. Thwarted again!
Aaah, another dastardly “loophole”.
I can hardly wait to see the logic twisting when President Michelle Obama decides she wants to unilaterally withdraw from the new USMCA treaty in 2021. I’m sure it won’t be a loophole then. And she better not have to explain herself to those racist GOP shits in Congress either.
Loophole, or what a lawyer calls “complying with the law”.
shut your whore mouth.
It is hers for the taking.
Note that this applies only to NATO, at least the wording used in the article. . .
shaddup with your sissy ass reading comprehension skills!
Misanthrope is spelled l-i-b-e-r-t-a-r-i-a-n, innit?
In a word, yes.
“Now it won’t happen for the obvious reason: $$$.”
I can’t find the link right now (actually I can’t even be bothered looking for it), but there were rumors/reports about a year back that some foreign owners (i.e. Americans mostly) of EPL clubs were quietly suggesting getting rid of relegation because of the $$. Basically the drop off of TV money from EPL to Championship is huge and they wanted to protect their investments.
Duh.
Obviously.
If I had found a sane woman willing to have 8 kids I would have married her.
I hope that is more of a spectrum than a binary choice.
Young Bishop Jimbo wouldn’t have been happy having every girl in the bar only fall into one of those two camps.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7784529/Virginia-Roberts-claims-FBI-warned-credible-death-threat-against-her.html
“Virginia Roberts claims the FBI have warned her there is ‘a credible death threat made against her’ following Prince Andrew interview and Jeffrey Epstein’s ‘suicide’”
Ummmm….did she not consider that the FBI may be out to kill her? Oh, is that a crazy assertion to make or is it crazier to believe that the FBI totally didn’t know anything about Epstein and are totally shocked about all that raping and pedophilia that suddenly just got found out?
Pssst…the people who are “protecting” you are out to kill you.
It’s not paranoia when people really are out to get you.
But….but….but…they’re the good guys or something
*fixes tinfoil hat*
Is that the dingbat that went willing with Epstien multiple times and now claims multiple rapes on multiple occasions?
Now pull the other one honey.
The call is coming from in the house!
I mean, I’m already going to Hell, so, eff it, I’ll just say…
…she’s 36? Seriously? She was cute at 17, and I know you’re probably not going to look like your Tinder profile when you’re about to do an interview about being sexually assaulted as a teenager, but…I mean…I’m just sayin’, most of the women I know now are at least 36 and they all look…less…matronly?
Why do you think she switched from hooking to accusing her Johns of rape?
Well shit, I guess I better not do the Great Midlife Crisis Nevada Strange Tour in ten years. I’ll just stick to LSD.
Admittedly a tOSU vs Cleveland Browns match up for promotion or relegation would be fun to watch.
Browns by 40?
After waiting 7 weeks my exam (Scantron sheet) has been scored. Still don’t get my license for 4 to 8 weeks while new York confirms my eligibility… what was the first 6 week waiting period for then when they checked my eligibility to take the exam for then?
In case you were getting ready to drive a truck into a crowd?
It was an engineering licensure exam though. :/
In case you were getting ready to drive a train into a crowd?
This is why everyone hates libertarians.
It’s the objectivists that are fond of trains.
*raises hand*
Fond of trains.
Not qualified to be an Objectivist.
/some people on the internet
To try to keep this vaguely on topic which SC Glib wants to drive this to the stadium?
1991 custom camaro (Spartanburg)
The interior is even better than the exterior!
OMG
How is that not actually in NJ? It belongs in NJ.
looking to take cash, but would consider a trade for your palate of aquanet and 700 sausage and pepper heroes or WaWa gift cards.
When you need a hoagie at 2am where else are you going to go?
WaWa has finally made it to northern NJ. Happy times! I missed them.
Yeah, that could have been a nice looking car, but he, uh, May have went a little overboard.
What’s a Murcielago?
An “homage” to a Murciélago? Which, until moments ago thanks to wiki I now know is Spanish for “bat”.
Damnit.
It’s like a mariposa, but leathery.
Obligatory.
I almost added that.
Or maybe – “Dude we can fix it, my dad’s got an awesome set of tools.”
Monster squad
“There is a crisis of anti-Semitism in this city. It has continued to take on a more and more violent form all over this country. Now we have seen this extraordinarily, extreme form of violence reach the doorstep of New York City and we have to take that as a warning sign,” de Blasio said Wednesday.
“We have to understand, as I’ve heard from so many members of the Jewish community, that people are now living in constant fear. Members of the Jewish community have told me they no longer feel comfortable wearing anything that is a symbol of their faith for fear of an attack,” he continued, calling such a climate “unacceptable.”
Police officials added during the press conference that the unit would take over monitoring of far-right groups such as the Proud Boys and the white supremacist Patriot Front, which state officials believe to be recruiting on college campuses.
“There are people we’re definitely concerned with in the tri-state area,” NYPD chief of intelligence Thomas Galati said. “It’s our job to identify them and make sure they’re not acting out.”
“We’re the only entity in the NYPD designated in the patrol guide to investigate quote-unquote political activity, meaning political activity that could lead to illegal activity,” added the intelligence bureau’s commissioner, John Miller.
NYPD thought police. What could possibly go wrong? Maybe De Blasio will send his wannabe Stasi goons out into the hinterlands, like Mike! sending his minions to out of state gun shows to catch people violating New York gun laws.
Who’s on the radar? You’ll never guess.
Police officials added during the press conference that the unit would take over monitoring of far-right groups such as the Proud Boys and the white supremacist Patriot Front, which state officials believe to be recruiting on college campuses.
When your so called philosophy has such a precarious hold on the mind that any conflicting view is liable to displace it, maybe you should be looking in the mirror, instead of under your bed.
Um, are they sure it’s the far right groups doing all of it? There might be some renegade Amish running around as well.
I don’t know much about the Proud Boys, but I had the impression that race doesn’t enter into it for them.
…thus proving they’re racist. Don’t you even prog bro?
It doesn’t. And I think the leader is cuban or something.
Mike! sending his minions to out of state gun shows to catch people violating New York gun laws.
Oh boy. When did that happen?
Police officials added during the press conference that the unit would take over monitoring of far-right groups such as the Proud Boys and the white supremacist Patriot Front, which state officials believe to be recruiting on college campuses.
Didn’t a group win a suit against the FBI for being falsely labeled as a Gang organization? Something like “Mentally Ill Clown Troupe”
Don Lemon, is that you?
What’s truly troubling — and what makes me genuinely mad — about all of this is that we won’t hear condemnation from supporters of Trump (in elected office and out) for this absolutely appalling behavior.
Why? Because, at this moment in American political history, the party you identify with trumps — ahem — everything else including common decency.
Because common decency would dictate is that, as a society, we don’t condone an adult bullying a 16-year-old girl online. Because we know it’s wrong. Because we know if we had a daughter, we wouldn’t want her to be bullied by an adult. Much less an adult man. Much less one who is the President of the United States.
That is not a partisan position. It is a moral one. It is a common sense one. Don’t believe me? Listen to first lady Melania Trump:
“In today’s global society, social media is an inevitable part of our children’s daily lives. It can be used in many positive ways, but can also be destructive and harmful when used incorrectly. This is why ‘Be Best’ chooses to focus on the importance of teaching our next generation how to conduct themselves safely and in a positive manner in an online setting.”
Sick burn.
Which, what the hell? Our common humanity should dictate that we don’t let the President — or ANY adult — bully a kid, right? RIGHT? RIGHT.
That we have lost that memory of our common humanity is hugely worrisome. And may well be the lasting legacy of Trump’s time in office.
Unless that kid smirks at someone invading his personal space. Then you can bring the full weight of the MSM against him.
Sugar Free, is that you?
Aside from the link, what am I missing here?
https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/12/politics/greta-thunberg-donald-trump/index.html
The Mongols.
The Visigoths.
The Huns.
The Templars.
The Ottomans.
The Romans.
The Nazis.
The Soviets.
The Chinese.
Yeah, let’s go back to the good ol’ days.
The Scots.
The Irish.
The Scotch-Irish.
SCOTS-Irish.
Why does the teetotaler have to correct people who drink?
Also, the Scots-Irish settled in Appalachia, mined coal, and gave us bluegrass, so they weren’t all bad.
Well, after a certain number off drinks, you tend to make more mistakes.
1) The proper spelling is debated.
2) We are arguing about the spelling of a people group with some of the lowest literacy rates in the country
3) Foreshadowing the article I just wrote, I address the teetotaling vs drinking thing
4) Your last statement is mathematically correct as long as you keep the second to last word in. I guess.
I have nothing to counter any of that.
They are my people (for real).
Maybe I shouldn’t admit that.
Some of my best friends are Appalachian hill folk.
Have you seen Out of the Fire? I swear that gave me flashbacks and I don’t even have PTSD.
7 generations of in-breeding in South central KY produced me. These are my people, although more Irish-English than the Scot variety (although I am sure plenty of that too).
To be fair, Huguenots were mixed in with those Scots-Irish, or so my geneaology tells me.
That explains a lot Rob. 😉
It was a joke until my Mom starting serious family tree research.
Just google “Melungeon”.
THEY’RE MUH PEEPLE
SCOTS-Irish.
Not the way the Irish drink…
The SCOTS gave us kick ass rockabilly music!!!!
Besides lose the holy land and lend the king of France too much money, the Templars did nothing wrong.
You’re right. I am not sure why I put that in that list.
I’m not sure why half of those groups are on the same list as the Nazis and Soviets, to be honest.
My only point was that other people’s humanity was never really any conqueror’s first consideration.
common humanity
Are you dehumanizing them?
Who was it that said something like “Someone asked me what it was like to kill a person, I answered, ‘I don’t know, I’ve only killed Communists’?”
Google says this guy
It was a Pole IIRC
Wiki was a little short on details but he sounds like a candidate for Animals’ PiTM series.
Because we know if we had a daughter, we wouldn’t want her to be bullied by an adult.
But we have to totally take here seriously, and cant just call her a kid and ignore her.
If Kids want to be treated like adults, that means being ridiculed for their horrible ideas.
Because we know if we had a daughter, we wouldn’t want her to be bullied by an adult.
No, but I wouldn’t use my daughter as a political prop either.
^This. You can’t have your cake and eat it, too. Either she’s a child who can’t be exposed to adult criticism, in which case she shouldn’t be given any credence, or she’s wise beyond her years and speaking truth to power, in which case she should be able to stand up for herself in the face of criticism.
Also, as someone who has a young daughter, “bullying” or “not being nice” isn’t just another way to refer to someone saying something you don’t like to hear. For instance, “You may not have any M&M’s until you’ve eaten those carrots, and if I hear any more about it you won’t get any at all tonight,” is not bullying.
Two wrongs don’t make a right, but I would also suggest that common decency would also dictate that a parent doesn’t shove their autistic daughter out into public like this.
And what kind of society listens to a kid with autism?
Generation Z?
Probably depends on what they have to say.
“Pinochet did nothing wrong”
ridiculed for their
horriblehorrific ideasThis is why they chose a disabled child as their mascot – they think she is immune to criticism cuz only mean people would criticize a disabled child. Fuck them, and fuck the children. I am not gonna let them hold that over me and neither should Trump.
Who is the bully here Chris? I will let you have one guess.
Does this not prove that he treats everyone equally? Can we now stop with the claims that he is some crypto-bigot? The man is willing to taunt women, cripples and idiots. How much fairer can a guy get?
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/rashida-tlaib-only-member-of-squad-to-weigh-in-on-new-jersey-shooting
Uh huh.
Some people did something.
Curse those Amish.
Man, you wanna talk about tortured logic. “White supremacy is so toxic and dangerous that it inspires people who aren’t even white to emulate it.” Because, really, *all* supremacy is white supremacy, right Rashida?
Its all Christianity’s fault anyway.
Leftists think that blacks/women/native/anything that’s not a straight-white-male do not have agency.
What Tlaib meant that if only those white Jews weren’t so Jewish, those poor black Hebrews wouldn’t have died at the hands of the white supremacist police.
Also, Free Palestine with a side of Tibet.
I understand completely now.
If the Jews go away Palestine will no longer be free, the Palestinians would have to pay their own way.
I never got the ‘Free Palestine!’ thing.
They are free to go on their merry way anytime they like, but they are like the beggar who self-inflicts wounds to play on the empathy of others.
Being free means feeding yourself, supplying your own water, electricity and security and they don’t want to have anything to do with that.
Two state solution? They have tried that multiple times. Peace between them and the Jews? Never gonna happen as long as there are Palis there.
If I had to pick the worst culture on earth today I couldn’t do much better than to pick the Palestinians.
I am not sure why I put that in that list.
Simon Templar went on to be the worst James Bond ever.
THE
WORST.
Oh, good. I have an excuse.
Even worse that that one guy?
You weren’t persuaded?
TW: Anecdote
Last year my 75yo mom and I took a road trip together. She asked me to go because she loves road tripping but she can no longer drive cross-country by herself, which was a difficult thing for her to admit. (She took my daughter one year for company and that didn’t work; she needed someone to share the driving.)
I went because it’s probably the last time I’m going to get to spend that much time alone with my mom. It was a good road trip. It was fun and I will cherish it.
Anyway, the last motel we stayed in in Paducah, Kentucky, there were reruns of The Saint on. I’d never seen it before. I liked it a lot. The dialogue was snarky, snappy, and clever. I got my mom the whole box set on DVD for Christmas.
That road trip and The Saint are inextricably entwined in my memory.
Did you go to the quilt museum?
We did not and I regret that mightily.
Us too. We actually drove there for that but my wife wasn’t feeling well and had to skip it. Went to lunch in Metropolis, IL though.
Quilting.
That is a serious art form, but try as I might, I can’t shake my grandmother’s disdain for machine quilting.
My grandmother taught me how to piece and quilt by hand, but they were always simple (piecing) patterns, not these works of art.
You forgot about Timothy Dalton?
Oh boy. When did that happen?
“The gun show loophole is a deadly serious problem,” Bloomberg said in a statement. “And this undercover operation exposes just how pervasive and serious it is.”
The sting, the second engineered by Bloomberg in the past three years, is just the latest tactic the billionaire mayor has used to advocate for tougher national gun laws and enforcement. But pro-gun advocates, including the National Rifle Association, say that there are adequate laws on the books and Bloomberg — who toyed with a presidential run and now is seeking a third term as mayor — is simply looking to score political points.
The latest sting operation was conducted between May and August by 40 private investigators hired by New York City. They tested sellers in seven gun shows that were held in Ohio, Tennessee and Nevada.
Of the 47 gun sellers they tested — both private and licensed dealers — 74 percent appeared to violate federal law, investigators say.
This says federal law, but they were also trying to claim there were people trafficking guns from these shows to NYC, as I recall.
Also, I think most of the people claimed to be violating declined to sell anything to Bloomberg’s people.
private investigators hired by New York City
So they had no status as law enforcement agents and if they did, they were out of their jurisdiction, knowingly and intentionally committing crimes and trying to entrap and induce others to do the same? Arrest them and their masters.
Gun-grabbers 1) don’t know anything and 2) lie lie lie.
In what way did they violate Federal law?
given that gun grabbers always lie my default position is to call bullshit.
What’s a Murcielago?
The one on the left
I’m not a hippy or anything, but I root for the bull.
So he named his camero after a bull, pretty esoteric for a hillbilly.
It is hard not to. If you want to show us all what a ballsy dude. you are then fight the bull straight up without handicapping it.
You forgot about Timothy Dalton?
Dalton, to the best of my recollection, never “wrassled” a giant rubber snake.
Also, Maryam d’Abo.
The d’Abo sisters in their prime.
That’s enough to kill a man.
Cousins?
I’m not a hippy or anything, but I root for the bull.
I have a book around here somewhere full of Hemingway’s news stories. There was a story about seeing (his first, maybe) a bullfight, in Spain. A great piece of writing. I think maybe he was rooting for the bull.
He wrote a whole book on bullfighting (Death in the Afternoon). I think he mentions somewhere in there that part of the appeal is that a bullfight is a pretty fair fight, as matadors do die or get seriously injured in the ring.
That is true, and that is how I think of it.
However, some promoters and managers drug the bulls or file down their horns or do all sorts of things to hamper the bull. That’s not fair at all.
Tangentially related: They have operating rooms in the arenas and there is an entire orthopedic specialty dedicated to bull-inflicted injuries.
I’m no expert on bullfighting. All I know about it is from that one book. Handicapping the bull is unsportsmanlike. But, if it’s a fair fight then it’s probably better than the alternative of just killing the bull in some sanitized manner away from the public, but no less brutal fashion, which somehow is different.
Slaughterhouses are not the most humane things ever, no, and also not fair. It’s just out of the public eye and people think beef grows in meat cases and leather sprouts on the shelves of Jimmy Choo.
Dr Temple Grandin is a giant.
How common is her method of animal slaughter, though? I don’t know much about standard slaughterhouse procedures
I don’t know how common it is, but I formatted this ebook and worked closely with the AVMA on other publications.
I dunno either, but I love her approach. Rather than making an argument from a moral standpoint, she approaches it from the producer’s side- easier handling of livestock, safer for employees, better tasting product, and so on.
I for one am happy to eat food that does not require me to engage in a fair fight.
+1 grocery stores
That would happen a lot more often if they didn’t cut the bulls neck muscles before the fight. Pretty chickenshit if you ask me.
Most of his friends were bullfighters. And Picasso.
It is thought that matador Juan Belmonte (retired, unwillingly), upon hearing of Hemingway’s death, said, “Well done,” and then killed himself. It’s still up for debate whether that is true or not.
Sounds good anyway, so who cares?
Hemingway even made suicide seem badass. Instead of using a pistol- he used a shotgun for spectacular effect.
Just like Courtney Love did.
Kurt Cobain didn’t kill himself.
Meow.
Name the store where Hemingway bought the shotgun that he used to kill himself (hint: it still exists, though it no longer sells guns).
Wal-Mart?
Abercrombie and Fitch
Ballsiest guy I ever knew is a tie. A) A 6.5 foot tall Aussie named Colin Xxxxxxxx whom I watched catch a full grown male leopard with his bare hands. Dogs had it bayed. He waited until the cat was facing away, leapt in and grabbed it by the scruff of the neck and base of the tail at the same time. He bent the tail up and the cat just froze. He tossed it into a cage in the back of his truck and shut the door. Easy-peasy, right? Nuthin’ to it.
B) I am not going to tell about that one. Let’s just say when it came to saving a friend’s life bullets didnt scare him.
Neither one of those guys wore sparkly tights, walked around with their nose in the air and their nemesis’ were not handicapped.
I’m actually kind of disappointed.
One other takeaway from that Hemingway story (I think that is where I saw this): the bull learns so much in a single fight they have to kill him, one way or another, because if they ever let him back in the ring, he’d commit what could only be called an assassination of the matador.
This is true. However, a matador can give a particularly valiant bull a pardon. He’s put back out to pasture and stud for the rest of his life.
So they ‘go to live on a farm’?
Literally, not the “your dog went to live on the farm” farm.
So I was thinking about writing a story expanding on “Baby It’s Cold Outside,” then I decided the story was perfectly done in the song and did not need expansion.