Libertarians often believe in what is de facto open borders. But let’s look at the consequences.
Yes, we are a nation of immigrants, but our current situation is different than it was in the past. The country is suffering from immigration indigestion. The existing laws of the United States now exclude certain classes of immigrants who, we can all understand, would be most undesirable additions to our population. These exclusions have been enforced, and the results have been beneficial; but the excluded classes are extremely limited and do not by any means cover all or even any considerable part of the immigrants whose presence here is undesirable or injurious, nor do they have any adequate effect in properly reducing the great body of immigration to this country. There can be no doubt that there is a very significant and heartfelt desire on the part of the American people to restrict further, and much more extensively than has yet been done, immigration to the United States.
I needn’t mention the economic side of the general policy of restricting immigration. In this direction the argument is unanswerable. If we have any regard for the welfare, the wages, or the standard of life of American workers, we absolutely must restrict immigration. There is no danger to American workers from the entry of skilled or trained and educated immigrants with an established occupation or pursuit, for immigrants of this class will never seek to lower the American standard of life and wages. On the contrary, they desire the same standard for themselves. But there is an appalling danger to the American wage earner from the flood of low, unskilled, ignorant, immigrant labor which has poured into the country for some years and which not only takes lower wages, but accepts a standard of life and living so low that Americans cannot compete with it. In essence, the current wave of immigrants is merely cheap competition for American workers, and a heavier drain on the welfare system. It has been well documented that reliance on foreign workers in low-wage, low-skill occupations, such as farm work, creates disincentives for employers to improve pay and working conditions for American workers. When employers fail to recruit domestically or to pay wages that meet industry-wide standards, the resulting dependence — even on professionals — may adversely affect both U.S. workers in that occupation and U.S. companies that adhere to appropriate labor standards.
New arrivals should be limited to our capacity to absorb them into the ranks of good citizenship. America must be kept American. For this purpose, it is necessary to continue a policy of restricted immigration. It would be well to make such immigration of a selective nature with some inspection at the source, and based either on a prior census or upon the record of naturalization. Either method would insure the admission of those with the largest capacity and best intention of becoming citizens.
To sum up, we have been called the melting pot of the world. We have experienced a situation where it looks as though we have allowed influences to enter our borders that are about to melt the pot in place of us being the melting pot. There has come about a general realization of the fact that the immigrants who have been coming to us in recent years are wholly dissimilar to native-born Americans; that they are unfamiliar and perhaps hostile to self-government, something that has taken us many centuries to acquire. America is also beginning also to feel the pain from the internal ‘foreign colonies’- those groups of aliens, either in city slums or in country districts, who speak a foreign language and live a foreign life, and who want neither to learn our English nor to share our common life. Instead, let’s keep what we have, protect and preserve what we have, make what we have the realization of the dream of those who wrote the Constitution.
(yes, this is a pastiche of contemporary comments from politicians in the early 20th century with some archaisms updated. They argued that Italians, Slavs, Asians, and Jews were qualitatively different than previous immigrants. Thus did half my family perish in Hitler’s concentration camps.)
Comments
366 responses to “The Old Man and Immigration”
I got about a paragraph and a half in, scrolled up to double check who wrote it, and started again. Setting aside the fact that I know you’re on the opposite side of the issue, my brain was screaming “OMWC isnt that intellectually lazy” the whole time.
Lazy is my middle name.
I thought it was ‘Danger’ ?
My actual middle name is Ira. It is a great source of embarrassment to me.
You should have never put that in the public domain, Ira.
In his defense, knowing that will make it less likely for people to contact him
Yeah, you save up that name for retirement.
That seems old skool and based af.
Mama Tres’s middle name was “Ashe” which is solid.
Ash Williams?
No…”Ashe”
I heard that Veronica Vaughn is one nice piece of ashe.
Moshe Ira Ben-Candy
Wonderful.
“Ira, you are the man.”
Gilligan?
I was reading it thinking at first I never knew he was anti immigration and by the middle I realized the score.
Same here. Very well done.
Hold up…Im actually reading it
Stop that! I bet you and your tall can swilling Transylvanite buddy also want us to … I mean read the articles?
I didnt instruct you to do anything…..eat some Skyline and chill
No. Gold Star, what even in the fuck is wrong with you? The Romanian has fucked up your mind, you were warned!
Yo, it breaks down like thusly-
Camp Washington > Dixie > Skyline > GoldStar.
Otherwise, you have a plate in your occipital
No, my chili = > Goldtar = > SKyline = > Dixie. What even in the fuck is Camp Washington? Is that some commie shit? You ain’t from Dayton, you imposter. It’s you and that vampire dude trying to trick us.
Camp Washington is in….Cincinnati. Home to the best chili (for coneys)
Slopping that mess on anything other that a hot-dog and bun (with mustard and onions) is an abomination.
Read that as “Skyline and chili” , thought you were finally admitting that Skyline ain’t chili.
Why are you Helenophobic?
I think Skyline everything is terrible.
I’ve said it before: the Midwest is where food goes to die.
WOOSH
Yes, please!
Lol
Simmer down, Calamity Jane.
Thread winner.
FUCK OFF SLAVER!!!
Okay, back to the read the article.
I agree wholeheartedly! Finally someone who gets it. This is why I left that cosmolibtard open-borders loving trash heap TreasonNN.
The only reason I even want to limit immigration at all, is that the democrats want to use poor uneducated people as voting pawns in their quest to complete power. This is absolutely the truth and no one can seriously deny it. Outside of that, open up the borders, it goes both ways. I’m going to be a Baron in Guadalajara soon, with my own harem of little Mexican burritos with extra toppings and plenty of hot sauce. I mean I have to ask the wife.
Given that America is a vile capitalist nation that viciously preys on the workers in the insatiable quest for profit, and that we continue to suffer under a system of institutional racism that has never ever been more pervasive throughout society, AND that we have so many mass shootings per year that we’re basically a country of 320 million people constantly shooting at each oth– hang on.
BLAM! BLAM! BLAM! BLAM!
As I was saying, we’re essentially shooting at each other constantly, it’s clear that the United States is not a safe country for immigrants, so I propose we send all incoming migrants to safe, sane, liberal, gun free Canada. I can’t imagine Democrats would have a problem with that.
I certainly understand the arguments of folks not wanting a mass migration of the same folks who bring guys like this into power. I don’t think it’s a legitimate concern but I still understand it.
https://hotair.com/archives/john-s-2/2019/08/14/ny-times-venezuela-torturing-military-officers-retain-power/
Is it really a pastiche if it can be taken seriously so easily?
I’m really tired of everyone talking about the “economic” factor when it comes to immigration. Clearly the focus should be on the “hotness” factor. All (single) hotties welcome.
They’re not sending their best
I don’t think asking for 7″s or better is an unreasonable request.
You, my man, are a man after my own way.
Size queen.
???
Now waitaminute; I’ve been told by numerous spelling-error-laden emails that the average is at least 8″ and potential sexual partners will be turned off by anything less.
Yes 8″ diamatar. Dat’s korrecked.
Lol.
YES! This guy gets it! The new immigration system form. Female? No? Get the fuck out. Muffin top? Yes? Get the fuck out. Send pictures for further determination.
Swipe right for a visa, swipe left for a 14 night stay at the nearest ICE facility.
Hoosegow or Clink?
The Big House.
Agreed and let’s prioritize Russia and Ukraine.
Mexico, too.
Two words: Salma Hayek
She’s half Arab.
Yeah. I pretty much agree with that.
You are the best argument for why we should have kept out the Irish
But what about the Sottish? That Carnegie really fucked up shit.
Been here since the 1730s, Shitlord.
“Ten generations of imbeciles is enough.” – Oliver Wendell Holmes
As someone who is a Scot on my mother’s side and ))) on my father’s, I wish to join in this argument to state that you each represent the worst America has to offer!
People who have spent time with Spud and me generally say that, yes.
*sniff*
That brought a tear to my eye.
Like, you personally?
I can neither confirm. nor deny.
STFU, Johnny come lately!
Ahh, excellent. We will add you to the “will pay” column in the reparations ledger.
Can we haves your secret for longevity, Spuds? I mean I’m just your typical guy who wants to poke pussy well into my 300s.
Lot’s of red meat and alcohol. Trust me, it will work for you too.
+1 The Ranch
*sigh*
All I know is in getting pretty tired of “no english” phone calls with customers.
FWIW, I am the first born of a legit, legal, fully assimilated, & successful immigrant who also served his new country.
This is why our survival depends on defeating the Globalists and taking back our country.
“This is why our survival depends on defeating the Globalists and taking back our country.”
So, you want to put poor brown children in cages like you master, orangebadman, instructed you? Yeah, I get it, Putin Pawn.
They broke the law so they go to jail, which is what happens when you break the law.
Every caller about every issue on our local talk radio call in show.
I assume you live in REAL AMERICA and not a leftie scum city.
I love the local Balmer City talk show on my commute from work, on the JFX.
‘Capitalism has failed.’ Yeah, genius boy, tell us what you are replacing that with? No need, it’s Baltimore, that’s a built in defense system for stupid.
I’m ok with the whole “no public charges” thing. Other than that, I’m pretty easy.
That whole thing is a tempest in a teapot. Anyone who has had to file an I-134 knows that the “public charge” rule was in effect well, well, well before Trump.
Yes. I think it’s from the late 19th century (though I could be wrong).
Trump expanded the list of entitlement programs covered under the I-134, which is a great thing – but it was for the shittiest of reasons: to appease a base of native-born parasites who want to squeeze as much blood from the stone of state before the deficit catches up with all of us. These parasites believe that by limiting the population, they can suck at the teat just that much longer before it goes dry.
I mean you have fucking Tucker Carlson, in the middle of praising Liz Warren’s economic platform planks, sneering at libertarians over being concerned about “entitlement spending”.
The Tea Party should have been strangled in its crib.
?????
I earned my red wings too.
Eyyyyeeeeeewwwww
Unpossible. Native-born patriots don’t use welfare.
Fake news.
I mean Tucker Carlson practically jizzed over his desk about Warren’s economic
nationalismfacisim.I never watch Tucker so damn you for making me click that link.
As to the Tea Party movement, I am not sure they should have been strangled, but god damn they need to be reminded what fucking hypocrites they are. Look at who made it to congress then. Losers and anti liberty almost all. Looking at you little Marco.
The TP started as a principled liberty-leaning protest movement against the growth of the Federal government. Unfortunately, it was taken over by clowns and frauds with comic alacrity. The minute you had an audience of portly, middle-aged men cosplaying as Minutemen cheering in front of Sara Palin’s podium, I was outta there.
*hides musket, takes off pointy triangle hat and blue waist coat with bitchen white lapels w/bronze buttons
Yep, it was Palin. Genius move, on her part, actually. I blame the TP itself, for not defining their positions. It started off well, and then they quickly became useful idiots.
If I remember the Tea Party started under Bush, who was spending money like a drunken sailor.
Yep. And because the Tea Party Rs were a minority, they were instantly marginalized.
Well a lot of things that were okay before are now signs of great evil now that Trump is in charge.
While the arguments were a bit over the top, there is some truth to the labor arguments. I guess the key is the word “unskilled”, as in, if you have no skills, why should you demand a higher wage? But I’m not convinced that cheap labor hasn’t lowered wages. A guy from Tijuana who learns how to hang drywall is still going to be willing to work for less than a natural born citizen will.
Hanging drywall for slave wages is exactly what my immigrant grandfather did to feed his family.
Did they have drywall back then? I thought it was all plaster… which takes even more skill. I’m still trying to think through your whole argument.
Wiki tells me late 19th century-early 20th for the adoption of drywall.
Huh. You’d think that I would know something like that.
Yes, drywall, plaster, wallpaper, painting, whatever would keep a roof over their heads. The Yiddish word is “paintner,” to distinguish it from artistic painting.
Oh that’s great. When I was young and working as a “paintner”, I’d be at a bar and people would ask what I did for a living. I’d say “I’m a painter”, and many times I’d get “oh really? Portraits? Landscapes?”
I love it.
Are you kidding? They had barely developed stacked stone.
But Jews are from the desert. OMWC’s grandfather Ugg built a wall. It was dry. Thus, drywall.
Fair point.
And if you’re an employer, how is that a bad thing?
It’s not, except that it impacts government services, the public domain, and the general welfare of the lower and lower middle classes. Employers are getting in effect subsidized to pay lower wages.
Get the government out of immigration. It should neither subsidize or restrict migration. While we’re at it, get the government out of services too.
As far as the general welfare of the lower and lower middle classes, I agree with William Graham Sumner, they can lick both of our nutsacks.
So gang members and terrorists can infiltrate our country?
Tell that to Katie Steinle, you coward.
Angle Families!
Typical lib turning to “humor” when confronted with the tough questions.
My property rights and the safety of my family outweigh your quaint little theories that FAILED every time they have been tried.
Walls work in Ireland and Israel, and they will work here.
Katie Steinle’s blood is on your hands.
Listen, man. I said I got my red wings, I didn’t say how.
CJ forgot China, the Greatest Wall Ever.
I kept out the Mongols! (Who consequently went west and pillaged all the way into Europe).
“It” – the Great Wall – I didn’t keep the Mongols out of China.
Did not
By “subsidize” I meant things like food stamps to lower wage workers, free preschool, english as a second language coarses taking resources, that kind of thing. In Libertopia, that’s obviuosly not a problem, but we don’t live in Libertopia, and I’d prefer that the tax money, that I am forced to pay, be used to benifit my fellow citizens first.
I’d rather it go to the few things the government is supposed to do, instead of growing to Leviathan, but, encouraging mass migration of unskilled labor will only serve to continue the growth of government.
Good luck with that.
Taking resources from whom for what? Something like 90 percent of ELL students are native-born, so they ARE your fellow citizens. All students should be trained to be bilingual to begin with, but it’s odd that learning English is seen as ancillary to the mission of a school. And at least ESL students are educable. Tons of money are spent for native-born special needs students who are severely mentally handicapped and will never be employed. Yet, we rarely hear nativists mention the effects of the Free and Appropriate Education (FAPE) legal doctrine when it comes to them.
I agree that government entitlements should end, but if, like me, you view restrictions by threat of use of force on the free movement of peaceable people as unjust, then I do not agree that we should advocate perpetuating injustice in the name of preventing the already cancerous growth of government.
Well sure, since the US has decided on birthright citizenship, which I agree with, since I don’t want enclaves of permanent second-class citizens. But, you evade, or miss, the point that these children are here, requiring these resources, because their non-citizen parents comprise at least 4% of the population, and possibly upwards of 8%. Those are not small numbers.
And considering that their parents contribute to the local economy and pay sales taxes, etc., they pay for those resources. Again, I think we agree that if we privatize schools, this problem goes away.
“Again, I think we agree that if we privatize schools, this problem goes away.”
Sure, but again, that’s the libertopia that we don’t live in. As policy, should one vote purely on principles? Or should one also take into account the real world results of those policies suggested by one’s principles?
Again, in this case, the question is “do two wrongs make a right”? I don’t think so. I cannot support the threat of force against peaceable people, regardless of the consequences.
Not public domain, I meant the Commons. Jesus, I’m not even drunk
If you’ve never read The Forgotten Man I highly recommend it.
I’ve been meaning to write an article about Sumner, who is both a founding father of American Sociology and libertarianism. Yes, at one time, sociology was all about proving how society can get along just fine without intervention from the state.
Pfft if you don’t any roads…
That one is in my stack of “to read once I finish this one more Netflix series about sparkly vampires”
Its the second and third order effects that are hard to conceptualize. On the one hand cheap farmer labor reduces the number of low skill jobs for citizens, but at the same time provides cheaper food for all citizens. Back to drywall, if I can get my drywall hung for a lower price, that means I can spend my savings on something useful, like meth
Yeap, it all comes back to the basics.
http://bastiat.org/en/twisatwins.html
I wasn’t a part of the Yang Gang until I realized I’d get 1,000 bucks a month to spend on guns.
Can’t red flag this fast enough….
People with flags should not get their Ubi.
Look, if you all keep making reasoned arguments, I will have to change my mind. That would hurt.
Seriously, I’m still trying to catch up. I will say that you people present the opposing side better than others I have heard.
Look towards the IT world. There’s been constant complaints about both H1-B and offshoring. While there are problems with the H1-B system (if I was willing to research it, there could probably be an article there), there’s still plenty of IT work in the US
Ya, I hate these assholes for that. They have changed my mind a few times.
Ok. So I get creative destruction, most efficient uses of resources, etc., and agree. The Luddites weren’t wrong: the industrial revolution destroyed millions ( ?) of jobs. However, over generations, everybody became better off.
Disruption happens, and right now we are in a productivity revolution that makes the industrial one look like a hiccup (and one that may not even end). My question would be: how does importing more low skilled workers into an environment actively replacing those workers with automation do anything but cause further disruption? At least the Luddites didn’t also have to deal with a massive influx of cheap labor.
Until a robot can put up drywall, clean my house, and mow my lawn faster and cheaper than immigrants do, I’m going to keep paying the immigrants. That day may come, but it’s not going to come as soon as a lot of people think.
Using language like “importing” takes away the agency of the people we’re talking about. Since the end of the slave trade, no one is stacking immigrants like cargo and shipping them over here. Immigrants are not in a game of Sim City, they respond to economic incentives and disincentives, quasi-rationally, just like the rest of us. They choose to come here because they believe they will have economic opportunity (or safety), if automation reduces that opportunity, then they won’t attempt to come. In fact, if one is concerned about illegal immigration, the best thing they could do is support automation. But instead, we have fucking pieces of shit freaking out about automation and killing innocent people.
Ok. Then I’ll use “allows in”. Which instantly makes the argument different. I still think I disagree, but let me mull it over a bit.
I agree. If the government were really loading up planes full of people, say from the Mid-East, and shipping them over here en masse, I’d be the first to say “bull-fucking-shit!” But if someone can arrive on their own accord, it is a different story.
They do “import” low wage low skill farm workers to my small valley of the world every season. There are labor contractors who find and contract with laborers who come here to work the fields. Then supposedly they go back and I imagine many do. What they can make here in a season of corn picking is good coin back home. Back in the day it was high school kids that did that work, now that is beneath them. It doesn’t pay enough. I can only imagine some of those kids will later be telling us we need to pay off their college debt.
The point is that there is a contract. The laborers wouldn’t contract with the agency if they didn’t feel that it was advantageous. Again, they are making a choice. H2A visas are non-immigrant visas anyway, so it’s like international exchange students. Yes, they’re here but they’re not “immigrants”.
I knew a guy who owned a huge construction company, did mostly government jobs, built a lot of roads. He was strongly against cheap labor. Took me a while to figure it out, but since he could only profit X% or he’d lose bids the two ways he could make more money were 1. take on more jobs 2. make sure the cost of the job was higher. 1 meant more work for him, 2 meant same work for money.
Or a consumer…
All economic progress brings forth disruptions. Whether we’re talking immigration, automation, globalization, whatever. So yeah, some people may have to find something else to do. But overall it leads to more prosperity and more opportunities for everyone. Maybe that displaced drywaller now starts his own business and subcontracts out the labor to the new work force.
Sure, and it’s something I have done a little, and almost went whole hog on instead of accepting this job. But how many average wage slaves are going to go out and start a company? Or even retrain? How many even can? The whole argument is really one that I struggle with. My Libertarian Urges vs. What my common sense suggests, as well as personal experience as a gaurdian of children a decade ago in the Denver School system.
I just don’t think you can go into any low skill job and expect to have job security forever. If you don’t want to be at the mercy of external forces, you have to constantly work on developing skills. Hell, I’m hoping to retire in six years and I still work on upgrading my skills constantly.
This. I get the same vibe when people complain about living wages. You shouldn’t expect a lower middle class lifestyle being the bottom tier fry cook at McDonald’s.
Ass Wednesday will definitely unleash the flow of your immigrants.
http://archive.li/rsWx3
36 and good night
This inspired piece of writing has inspired me to post an updated version of a song who’s message is just as relevant today as it was in the 60s.
You know, sometimes the movie is better than the book.
That place is right down the street from my house. I used to go there a few years back, but now I like the “Park” in Burbank instead.
“A few years” like 20, lol!
SHUT THE FUCK UP, ICETARD!
Ok so heres what happened. This leftTARD dem-o-LIB feminazi is on stage talking about how she has too many ovaries or whatever. Then, ben shapiro comes out, fukin jacked as fuck, wearing a sleeveless suit, and straight up punches her right in the FACE. And she fukin DIES right there.
Then he walks off stage. Having fully triggered ALL the libs.
FACTS and LOGIC!
I jack off to that GIF.
Earlier today, I saw someone post a link to “a goldfish has a long attention span than a human”. THIS was their citation.
Turns out, it comes from the Statistic Brain Research Institute
Isnt that like the Derek Zoolander Center for Kids That Don’t Read Good ?
OT: Jeffrey Epstein’s Bodyguard on His Former Boss’s Lifestyle, Cruelty, Suicide
My God.
Foolish reporter doesn’t understand about the fat fuck blue mafia
You’re just a paranoid, Alex Jones wannabe. How does it feel Epstein truthtard?
I believe Epstein killed himself but that’s because he was actually innocent. It was Trump who did all the crimes in an Epstein mask like in faceoff. Anyway Epstein knew that by killing himself it would trigger an investigation into his death and show Trump is the criminal we know he is. We got him this time.
*Standing Ovation*
…aaaaaand the comments are pretty much all about how this is a Russian agent connected to Trump, the GOP and the NRA.
It isn’t?
She was tied to the DNC first.
OT: I wonder who’s rhetoric is going to be blamed for these events?
Ban rhetoric!
OT: This would be hilarious if true.
That so thoroughly covers immigration talking points in a mere four paragraphs that I am genuinely impressed! I go back on forth on these issues since I am a recovering blue collared working conservative…(hissssss boooooo) who later learned he was most likely a libertarian when he actually knew what that was. I also agree with Friedman. End the welfare state, open the borders.
I have been thinking about this the past few days with the current crop of D’s slothing and lying their way to the party nomination. It occurred to me that the vast majority of non giant named business I frequent are all recent immigrant owned. A couple are two generation owned and have set their families up with several businesses and have acheived generational success for many to come. Some are first generation and they work very hard to put out great product that is desired and they are successful. Then I see Bernie Bros putting videos on twitter how they have to much college debt and they want you and I to pay it off. I will take the hard working immigrant over that fuck chop with a worthless degree any day. I am unconvinced that recent immigrants want handouts of wealth redistribution at the same time I don’t think one should be available to anyone especially fuck chop Bernie Bros.
Oh no. Western, these people have brainwashed you. If only you had never read these cursed posts…
My gf works down in the “barrio”. She tells me she has MS13 literally next door.
If you get her going on illegal immigration, it’s a a sight to be seen.
My dad riles her up, on occasion, for his own personal amusement. She does get some good rants going…
MS13 is more of a factor of the Drug war than immigration
It all ties together, apparently. She sees the daily ins and outs of it all.
Which is why I laughed when some were advocating we should open the gates of asylum for Hong Kong. You’re ready to build a wall over fears of MS13 but you’ll buy plane tickets for the fucking Triads?
It’s the Asian white supremacy kicking in.
FWIW I have no problem with letting refugees in from HK and ending the Drug war.
Hong Kong is full of people in favor of economic liberty and freshly educated on the dangers of Government. We could do worse. Not every person who wants to limit immigration is scared of brown criminals. Some of us are far more scared of community organizers, NGO volunteers, and all the other advocates of socialist positions.
I’m not advocating that we shouldn’t allow HKers to come over. Particularly Karen Mok. She goes to the front of the line. But I was just commenting on the fact that people were losing their shit about how we can’t distinguish the “good” hombres from the “bad”. Well, let me tell you something, the Triads are some of the baddest hombres out there.
I have a strong suspicion that in a truly free society organized crime would rapidly dwindle. With no prohibition laws and no excise taxes you won’t have a black market. With no vice laws your pimps and panderers have to compete in an open market. And the fall back position of ‘protection’ is likely to morph into the An Cap dream of private law enforcement. I say we let the Triads in, legalize every voluntary activity, and give it a try.
They generally only prey on fellow Chinese though, right? My milky white ass is in the clear then.
So, a political litmus test? How about we make our system appealing enough that there’s no justification for changing it? How about we live up to the limitations our founding documents place on government? Then, it wouldn’t really matter how anyone votes. You should not be able to vote away anyone’s rights, no matter where you’re from.
How about we make our system appealing enough that there’s no justification for changing it? How about we live up to the limitations our founding documents place on government? Then, it wouldn’t really matter how anyone votes.
How? If the population does not value the limitations enough to rebel when they are broken, they will be broken. You cannot craft rules that keep the players from breaking the rules without some enforcement mechanism, and any enforcement mechanism that is part of the Government simply becomes another group of players that have incentives to break the rules. You cannot keep limited Government without a populace that loves liberty enough to die for it.
It’s worth noting that the Triads started as a liberation movement against the Manchus, and with the fall of the Qing Dynasty, became a criminal organization.
It would be like if Washington, Jefferson, etc. decided to start the Patriot Mafia after the Battle of Yorktown instead of actually fighting the moonshiners during the Whiskey Rebellion.
The Mafia arose as an alternative Government when the corruption and despotism of the Sicilian and Neopolitan Monarchs grew too bad.
What if government was just a gang that we belonged to?
What if government was just a gang that we belonged to?
It pretty much is. The only difference I see if we admit it is that we’d likely have competition.
… Did I just cross from Minarchist to An Cap? Holy crap, I think I did.
Mazel tov!
Thread is too long to properly reply, but Jarflax gets it.
Yeah, I guess so. I have always been one to go down with the ship rather than succumb to the temptation to be pragmatic. Prolly be my downfall..
Blackjack always gets it
*best announcer-with-danger voice* In this corner is Ruthless! Ancient! Masters of Death……… the Triads!!!!! And in the opposite corner… the imposing newcomer, Master of Disaster! The Original Sin! Ladies and Gentlemen: MS13 !!!!!!!!
*bets 30 Quatloos on the Triads*
I used to have fun and rile up a co-worker on gun control (he was against it). All I had was mention I was in favor of gun control (for the record when I talk about gun control I mean hitting the target when you shoot — and he new this) and he would mutter angrily for at least a half hour.
RIFLE up a co-worker
While I am sympathetic to controls on immigration because of the welfare problem (yes, yes, I know), the actual problem lies with our native population.
We are well on our way to full blown collectivism of some stripe that will be particularly American. Some dumbed down red-blooded version of Marxism that can only sound attractive to retards, college students, and opioid addicts.
Our culture of individualism is under attack from both sides, but particularly the left. There is a significant portion of the populace that would negate the vast majority of the rights to be left alone in favor of the right to other people’s shit.
I understand the resistance to immigration as a reluctance to further enable this political destruction of our defining principles, but the reality is that even if we stopped immigration altogether, we would still continue our march towards socialist hell. We have plenty of native born young Communists just salivating at the chance to do “good”.
I think that if we truly want to slow down or stop this process, we need to pop the education bubble. Even then, it’s probably too late.
“retards, college students, and opioid addicts”
But you repeat yourself.
It’s not just educarion. The Long March through the institutions is almost complete. News, entertainment, even science, has been overrun by collectivism and egalitarianism. The Republic is dead, all hail the Empire.
You can learn a lot from dead animals.
Yes, well. I’m typing on my phone.
Chipwooder seeks to emulate ZARDOZ, but he gives the gift of the CRT instead of the gun.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/08/13/50-tvs-mysteriously-delivered-richmond-virginia-area-neighborhood/2004769001/
That’s a shitty gift. At least leave a Mosin.
Ha! Nuckols and Shady Grove, not far from me but much wealthier than my neighborhood. My kids go to camp right near there at the Shady Grove Y.
If you eat a Beyond Meat product, you are putting money in Al Gore’s pocket.
https://notrickszone.com/2019/08/13/climate-hustler-and-partner-in-beyond-meats-largest-investor-al-gore-moves-to-profit-big-from-anti-meat-drive/
+1 ManBearPig
So what? The hot Italian sausage is superb.
/that’s what SHE said
You are actively adding to Al Gore’s bank account. I suggest seppuku.
Give credit where credit is due, that fat fuck can smell rich guilt from hundreds of miles away.
And fly there from his mansion on a private jet lickety-split.
Also, he’s super-serial.
I am not convinced that it is a direct causal link, but things in the Country have gone down hill for Constitutional limited Government since the Immigration waves of the mid and late 19th century. The Germans, Irish, and Italian immigrants did bring changes with them, as have all migrations, and changes are not not usually unalloyed good or bad.
De Tocqueville called our demise 200 years ago. Immigration just accelerates it.
The answer is suffrage.
With all due respect to the libertarian women who frequent the site, a large percentage of women vote to have government replace husbands.
I don’t think you’re going to win hearts and minds with that one.
Women’s suffrage is only half of the problem.
What you did there was seen.
It obvious spics should have the vote either.
Straff is druunk, Straff is druunk.
I thought this was a “what I don’t really think” thread. My mistake. Thanks for your input.
Positive reinforcement is what I’m all about.
I could also be missing the entire point of this thread. Both are possible.
It don’t know how to play on the OWNING THE LIBTARDS! threads.
It’s not lost on me that in almost every election, it women didn’t vote, my preferred candidate would have won.
The question is what do we even do with that besides shake our heads and cluck our tongues? The subdemographics are even more interesting because single women are the single most influential and consistent progressive voting bloc, but married women are moderately conservative. If we want to increase liberty, we need to start pairing off the blue hair cat ladies
Inject the cats with my Mongolian berserker serum.
That’s it. I’m pissed. By that, I mean drunk.
Yes, and if only we’d kept out those dirty goombah Fredos, we wouldn’t have to suffer the Cuomos.
Well, I think we all can agree Olive Garden is worse than Hitler.
What does Olive Garden have to do with Italy?
Nothing.
Arguing about U.S. immigration law is inherently retarded because it’s never been enforced. I don’t mean that efforts in good faith have failed. It’s not like drugs are illegal, but there are still drugs because it’s an exercise in futility. It’s because immigration law is so complicated and politicized the government has no interest in following it. It goes from we need more dishwashers, to we’re mad at Castro this week, to that kid in the closet didn’t look so good on TV, to fuck you that’s why, to please fuck my wife in the ass. It’s like the DEA finding someone with a suitcase of cocaine, and letting them go because they were after heroin, then shooting someone on sight because they have a packet of sugar, and it all being standard policy, but only because it’s Tuesday.
Just look at the current situation. Since Trump has been President, so far the number of deportees is less than 10% than when Jesus Obama was President, albeit that was for eight years. Except orange isn’t the new black, so he’s literally Hitler, but FDR and JFK should have their own oricha candles? The whole thing is fucked nine ways from Sunday.
I think it’s important to note that the current asinine situation started with Ted Kennedy in the ‘60s. Prior to that, it was fairly reasonable.
What do you have against interracial marriage?
Yeah, that was the entire immigration system. And that was more of a domestic issue, than an immigration issue. Proggies gonna prog.
Don’t forget Opium dens fueling this “White slavery”.
White bitches love ethnics & drugs. It is known.
I’ve seen many documentaries that support this opinion.
“documentaries”
I assume on PornHub.
“please fuck my wife in the ass”
The African slave trade ended a long time ago.
… I’d like to subscribe to your newsletter.
“Max Boot’s Dishonesty
He intentionally misconstrues what others write and then lies about it, knowing that no one will bother to uncover his distortion.
Before yesterday, my primary criticism of the Washington Post’s Max Boot was political in nature. As I wrote in a recent book review, I found it regrettable that Boot’s opposition to the president had not prevented him from “succumbing reactively to Trump’s cult of personality, or from making Trump the origin of every graph onto which he plots himself.” As of yesterday, my primary criticism of the Washington Post’s Max Boot is that he is a narcissistic, dishonest, calculating, manipulative writer who is prone to engaging in precisely the sort of willfully dishonorable conduct that he claims to disdain in others.
Having purposively libeled one of our Buckley Fellows after he had the temerity to argue that one does not fight racism by making lazy racial generalizations, Boot has now moved on to libeling Dan McLaughlin, one of the most thoughtful writers in America, and to making peculiar charges about National Review as a whole. As Oscar Wilde might have said: To lie about one writer may be regarded as a misfortune; to lie about two looks like carelessness….
Those who wonder why so few writers are willing to pen long, thoughtful, descriptive pieces that grapple seriously with the opposing arguments and incorporate honest appraisals of what voters actually want need look no further than this incident for their answer, which is: because bankrupt toadies such as Max Boot use their work as launching pads for calumny. In a sensible world, the editors of the Washington Post would have looked at what Boot has tried to do over the last couple of days, and tattooed “hack” on his forehead. But we are not operating in a sensible world.”
https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/08/max-boots-dishonesty/
“Now @maxboot is portraying this analysis by @baseballcrank as some sort of white nationalist screed—how completely dishonest and thoroughly pathetic
Why We Panic about Immigration”
https://twitter.com/RichLowry/status/1161454357189206017
Say what you want about Rich Lowry, but he has the best weed.
“Oh heavens, @MaxBoot, you should have tried reading the whole article. You might have started by reading the title. This is just embarrassing, & not for me.”
https://twitter.com/baseballcrank/status/1161455877255258112
““Candidate Harris what are your thoughts on this thing happening right now that we literally know nothing about?”
Responsible CNN journalism”
https://twitter.com/redsteeze/status/1161766526262943748
“@RepValDemings: “We can assume” the Philly shooter targeting cops is using the “high-capacity magazines” we must outlaw”
https://twitter.com/tomselliott/status/1161755230356299776
I guess I’m adding a few PMAGs to the collection tomorrow.
If you don’t already have 50 PMAGS, turn in your “Don’t tread on me” card.
There’s such a thing as stripper clips.
Sure for your garand, but spud already admitted his weapon uses a pmag.
Thumb savers, they is.
It’s what I use to organize my dollar bills.
I’m biased on this, in part by my desire to perhaps emigrate to somewhere else at some point .. and when I start to contemplate actually doing that, and look at all the damned requirements and red tape, I can’t help but put myself in the place of people who wish to immigrate here.
Contrary to what some seem to think, or at least say, it ain’t just so simple as “love it or leave it” — the walls that try to keep people out of here, are the other side of walls that try to keep me out of everywhere else.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcw8R_pt43w
I agree. Having done the expat thing gives you insight.
Where were you thinking of going to?
spain
#metoo! But just for the winters.
Somewhere the beer flows like wine. Somewhere tropical and warm. Aspen.
Saw the new Lion King with the wife and kid yesterday. The CG is pretty cool. The plot would make Hoppe proud.
Hoppe proud.
The guy that makes my gun solvent?
Nein!
Number 9?
I’m a Ballistol guy. If it’s good enough for Hickok45, it’s good enough for me. And I’ve had great results with it.
I haven’t tried it. Thanks
It also has a pretty fascinating history.
https://ballistol.com/
CLP for me. I think I might finally be at the point where I need to actually buy it.
But does it smell as good as Hoppe #9?
Also; what is the proper pronunciation of “Hoppe”?
But does it smell as good as Hoppe #9?
sir: nothing does
“The guy that makes my gun solvent?”
Well, he IS pretty dreamy…
You know who else liked lubing his gun?
Animal?
Every teenage boy, ever?
Elliot Rodger?
This guy?
Krupp?
When you end the welfare state, I’ll be right there with you saying “open the borders”. Until then…get in line if you want in.
It’s a sticky problem.
Oh man…that shirt.
I’d like to put my peanut butter in her chocolate.
I’d like to eat her cups
Groovy!
Stolen (and improved) from the comments:
“Hey you got your ?on my ?!” “You put your ? in my ?!”
Who walks down the street eating peanut butter?
I guess I should have read the comments.
You won’t end the welfare state because all Dems and many Republicans view ending it as mean spirited. (As a Republican State Senator told me today.) However, you might get welfare ended for unlawful immigrants and immigrants who aren’t yet citizens. Most Americans don’t seem to so far off their rockers yet that they want to hand out taxpayer cash to immigrants of any stripe..
I tend to agree. I look at reality more than fantasy.
And reality is telling me that no matter what one’s opinion of immigration is, precisely zero will be done to “fix” it because every side has a vested interest in the status quo.
I look at reality as well. Then, having looked at it and realizing that there is absolutely no path forward that actually fixes any of our issues, that every future I can see coming involves tyranny, erosion of human rights, dignity and well being, I choose to let my mind turn to fantasy. It sucks less that way.
But without immigration, we wouldn’t have pro soccer teams…though I suspect that’s a bonus for most anti-immigrant folks.
It really seems like the old libertarian argument, the more immigration, the less welfare.
Back to soccer – OCFC beat Kansas City, woot. Along with getting a point against a Toronto team that outplayed them pretty much throughout the whole game, they’re in good shape to make a playoff run now.
Or they would be, if they didn’t have 4 really tough teams in a row.
I’m past caring about the Cup – I just want my NYCFC to come out ahead of the NJ Red Bulls.
Oh, and it wouldn’t hurt if NYC could find a ringer or two like LA and Atlanta have, instead of the duds we wound up with.
Well, they’re up a point with 2 games in hand. And yeah, Orlando has no shot at the cup, but they do have some good position players. Janssen showed how much a good defender can help win games tonight. For your guys, it’s friggen’ NY. They should have the $20MM-$30MM/year or so to get someone above and beyond.
2 typos: “OCSC” and “Jansson”.
I’m honestly surprised they haven’t folded. I’ve rarely seen a team so poorly organized. How many more years are we going to have to play in fucking Yankee Stadium? To ever dwindling crowds? And don’t get me started on the Frank Lampard or Andrea Pirlo fiascos.
Not that Red Bulls are much better – they actually blocked off parts of their stadium because of shitty attendance. Which is unheard of for a “soccer-specific” stadium.
There’s something about this market that prevents MLS from “succeeding” to the degree you think it would. I think it’s… uh… immigants, TBH.
http://www.nextdoormania.com/pics/hegre_anna_table07.jpg
NSFW.
https://archive.li/hkarr/a120b55772683d0cd4d17546c828c0da950a3d64.jpg
NSFW.
https://archive.li/pFswZ/e40562b2da7ab384f9465474892a6ab4c31a2107.jpg
NSFW.
It’s like a fucking Benetton ad in here.
If they had Benetton ads with Q girls, I might have bought something from them.
Oh my.
This made me think of you Q.
“The only thing worse than being thought about is being thought about…by CPRM”
Oscar Wilde
Just keep your eyes on the prize.
And…
What I want to know, is: What happened to the first six S Clubs?
I think J Michael Stringbean had something to do with at least one of those disappearances.
?
I heard some ad on the radio, can’t remember for what, that had a jingle in the form of a pop song with bad rap breakdown, sounded very S Club…Just wish I remember what it was for so I could buy the product.
Meth teeth girl reminded me of this gem from Patrice.
NSFL.
I didn’t know that Crusty wrote for Patrice!
I hate when you’re searching for porn and run into a bunch of lactating or diaper fetish videos. I mean you do you, but that shit makes me scared for humanity.
Yes, please.
Hegre always brings the “skinny with a big rack” demo. I’m assuming those are fakes, though good ones.
They are natural and perfect you hater.
She can immigrate to my house.
Yay! No jury duty tomorrow. Celebrating with an old fashioned.
I got nothing. Um, something something ‘inflammatory statement’.
Muchly offended. Extreme angry.
Accusational tone, rambling sentiments!
Claim to support a particular liberty! Then, explain how I actually don’t…
SHUT THE FUCK UP LIBTARD!
Unwarranted accusation of racism!
Self-righteous use of “home” instead of “house”!
Use of “my children”!
Blocks with my Gay Child card! Adds Gender Ambiguity card for +7 attack!
Points out that “Yu gi oh” backwards is “hoi guy”.
(I never played any of these nerd games, just going off what I remember the
fags retards less populardisenfranchised special people talking about)Triggered by DISCUSSION!
I liked America at 200 million; We’re way past that and mostly what I’ve got to show for it is crowded interstates. I don’t resent anyone who is here, legal or otherwise; but it’s enough for me today.
We killed off the Indians fair and square. This (1/333,333,333 of it) is mine, and I don’t want to stand in line with any more folks at Yellowstone.
Arguments that we won’t have cheap cellphones without immigrants are excellent arguments . . . for getting rid of cellphones.
Open borders when we live only a few hundred miles from tens of millions of starving folks is a recipe for a billion people standing in shit; if I wanted to move to India, I would have done so already.
I do accept open borders as a libertarian ideal, but I don’t live in a libertarian ideal, so it’s neither here nor there; I don’t have room for new people because a quarter billion of the neighbors I already have are socialist idiots. Now if you want to kill 250M of my dumbest neighbors and replace them with the smartest and hardest working Arabs, Poles, Mayans, Swedish bikini team alumnae, Kiwis, and Koreans, I’m totally open to talking about that.
I hope everyone gets rich and finds love . . . wherever the hell they already are. . . or go and kill your own Indians in your own forested utopia.
Are we even at population replacement rate without immigration? If anything makes me ponder the political goals, it’s that. Welfare state falls apart if population declines.
Emotionally it’s easy to sympathize with the argument. When I’m sitting at a stop sign 30 miles from downtown watching two long lines of Indians and Chinese duke it out for right of way, I wonder what life would be like in America 200M. Logically, I realize that legal immigration is a boon.
One thing I’ll quibble with you on is open borders as principled libertarian position. I think it is consistent with libertarianism, but I don’t think that closed borders is any less consistent. Travel is a positive right when there is no frontier.
My math is frivolous. I just mean to say that I prefer mountains to subdivisions. If 200M is good, 100M is great.
We agree on travel. I merely mean to be open to an ideal. All rights are property rights, so your,shorthand is more apt than mine.
I don’t however follow you “logically” about immigration. You offer an anecdote, but the issue is epic. I can’t prove GWA one way or the other for the same reason. A hot day isn’t climate, and Sirhan Sirhan doesn’t prove anything either.
Dude seems like a tool, but this is funny.
were you gone a while, or am I just bad at details ?
He was just playing GTA V.
New job keeps me busy during the day. (And I’m concerned about logging into my usual websites at work, given the climate.)
Oh, now you’ve been
brainwashed into controlling the masses through manipulated figurestalked into the one truth.We are all missing the point on immigration; It doesn’t matter what you think. People with much more power, money and bloodlust will decide who goes where.
Says the man with the key to untapped Japanese poon.
If they decided I could be here to do that, I wouldn’t be here doing that.
That newspaper is pretty great.
The phrase ‘dusky Asiatics’ makes me think of King Asiatic. Which is not a bad thing.
That was fun.
I have been pointing out that we are in the midst of a wave of immigration that we have only seen once before in our history – and the response today is similar to that first go-around, only substantially muted.
This effect has been quite different in different parts of the country, so it is no surprise that we have disparate reactions. One big impact has been areas that have not seen significant demographic shifts in the last 100 years are seeing big changes. I have family in central North Carolina. The ethnicity of the area was very simple all my life – you had both kinds of people…. black, and white! There were no significant minorities of any other stripe. So the slurs common to the northeast were lost on us. There was no anti-jew sentiment to speak of because we only had one Jewish family. And we only had one Korean family to represent all Asians.
Then the big changes began some 20 years ago. Areas that had not seen any changes in the racial dynamic beyond black and white folk coexisting suddenly had huge influxes of people who not only were different – they didn’t even speak English. People who never gave a second thought to what a Latino was were suddenly confronted with a McDonald’s full of people who spoke only Spanish. Many found it discomfiting. Even though most didn’t have thoughts of racial superiority, there were a lot of people who found they didn’t like having their culture and the racial makeup of their neighborhood altered without so much as a by-your-leave.
There has been surprisingly little strife, considering the magnitude of the changes over the last quarter century. Just to underline the point, the area north of Atlanta in the foothills used to be Klan country. When I moved to Atlanta back in 1991 they used to have a march every year – it was kinda sad as they only had about 18-20 people, but they’d get out their stars and bars and make a stink. They were all from up around Dawsonville, Dahlonegha, that area. By the turn of the century, there was a huge Hispanic population in the area. I went to an auto parts store up that way and the guy who spoke english wasn’t in that day. So I had to explain what I needed to two workers who only spoke Spanish.
They were drawn to the area by construction work. The expansion of Georgia 400 opened the area to development and the yuppies who from Atlanta poured in, buying McMansions and new starter homes in new neighborhoods. Within a decade the area went from an entirely white kinda redneck enclave to a multilingual , wealthy suburb.
Yet there was very little conflict as a result.
So, despite the debate over just how much ignoring of illegal immigration we are going to continue to do, I’d say we have done remarkably well absorbing and adapting to change. There really hasn’t been much racial tension at all, despite the best efforts of the race warriors and grievance mongers. That certainly wasn’t true when you introduced a bunch of Italian and Irish immigrants to the northeast a century ago – even though those “races” were all European nationalities.
https://youtu.be/boO4RowROiw
Agreed, in most parts of the country it’s more about rule of law and being able to communicate than about race today, but that won’t stop the narrative that the El Paso shooter who wanted to kill latinos was ‘far right’, when his stated reasons, if the manifesto is true, were to make it more financially feasible to implement single payer and a UBI.
Oh you’ll sing a different tune when immigrants drink al the northern Rhone syrah in America.
Also would any of you want your daughter to date an immigrant (still looking for that green card fake marriage )
Her husband might object.
does the husband fight good?
“would any of you want your daughter to date an immigrant”
As opposed to a millennial who doesn’t drive and thinks playing video games is a legitimate career choice?
“Hey! It’s ‘Quality Assurance’ at the developer.”
I am so sorry I missed this article.
Something I do not see discussed very much: America isn’t based on language, religion, ethnicity or geography. It is the only country I know of based on an idea. That idea belongs to all human beings everywhere and it is the source of our incredible success. There is nothing stopping the peoples of Zimbabwe or Khazakstan from embracing those ideas except the people themselves.
I am convinced that our present day leftists want to import as many people who don’t embrace that idea as possible as that idea is repulsive to them and they want it extinguished.
I heard the guy in Philadelphia has a long list of felony convictions. If that is true then how did he get the guns he used? He couldn’t pass a background check so that means he couldn’t get any guns. Right? Isn’t it true there only one way to get guns?
The guns came from Indiana.
Upthread I see Harris calling for gun grabbing. This is a woman who kept people in prison to use them as slave labor. Does anyone really think she wants to disarm them for their own good? If so, I have some prime real estate down in the Atchafalya for sale…..
The biggest problem with red flag laws is that they will be enforced by people like Kamala Harris.
(Per local news) 30 cops shot at him and he still walked out of there.
We had one of those guys down here about 20 years ago. Career criminal, drug dealer etc who got tired of the cops on his ass all of the time.
He set up an ambush with an sks. He put a heavy cast iron bath tub just inside the door of his house and when the cops showed up he opened up on them. He killed 5? Six? I don’t remember for certain.
The cops burned up hundreds of rounds trying to get him but in the end the 40’s and ARs were worthless. The one that got him was the one with the 12 gauge.
In the caliber wars, 12 GA is King.
OMWC ranks for representing my view point in far better fashion than I could hope to,
Now if I could get the idiot’s on the phone to finish this job, been waiting since 1am
Thanks, not tanks, grrrrr
Wow
Yusef Brooks?
No kidding, and now I wait till 5, grrrr
I surf on a phone which has a horrible autocorrect and spell check so I do that all the time.
why are you people not sleeping at this time?
I’m working overnight right now its 4 am my time
3:30 to 4:00 I am up every morning. No alarm necessary. Years of a job requiring those hours reset my clock.
I start at 10pm, this is late, normal time I wake up about now, but overnights are different
Easy to see how working at night would be best for your business. Working on broken Air systems in the daytime would be the hottest job in town.
It’s past 7am Here, I’m at work, answering email.
They used to open at 6am eastern, now its 8, must be nice…..waiting on a keyboard jockey
answering email. – not fast enough if you got time to comment
If you answer too fast, your responses are… phrased poorly.
That never turns out well.
Gotta make the donuts
Here’s how I feel right now,
https://youtu.be/aeL9gagV_VA
This is how I always feel.
https://youtu.be/8aQRq9hhekA
OMWC is “Ira Man”.
14 47 on a no work day an it already feels late… Got up later than usual had breakfast and coffee, hit the gym, dusted and vacuumed the apartment after clearing up some things, did a load of laundry, now i need to get off my ass and scrub the bathrooms.