Billy Idol

Fourteen year old Tulip lurrvvved her some Billy Idol.  Those cheekbones, those eyes, that mouth, the leather and the hair.  Just hearing his voice on the radio could make me wet.  But, after the Rebel Yell album, I moved on.  To real boys (Pete Swenson, mmm, mmm) and other artists: Depeche Mode, Prince, a brief flirtation with Metallica and a longer one with country music.  In fact, I didn’t know he had been in a serious accident until I read the concert brochure about 6 or 7 years ago at a concert at Wolf Trap.  (Dear God, I’m old, I saw Billy Idol at Wolf Trap!)

It was a great concert; just a bare bones set, but he did all his hits with energy and conviction.  When he first came out, he did a strip tease to lose his white silk shirt and switch to a black leather vest (to match the black leather pants). He is still incredibly sexy.  After the strip tease, he ran out on stage right and posed with a fist pump and flexed his abs for people to take pictures.  After a moment, he ran to stage left and posed and flexed while the flashes went off.  It was a perfect acknowledgment of the nostalgia his concert represented, done with humor.  After the concert was over, I forgot about him again.

Until…I came across his autobiography “Dancing With Myself”. Apparently, he wrote it without a ghost writer.  Hell, yes, I had to read this!  So, last weekend, I put the “Very Best of Billy Idol” on the stereo and sat down to read it.  It is a great read, but somewhat uneven.  He does a fantastic job of creating a sense of time and place in the early chapters discussing his time in Generation X and first arrival in the U.S.  The best part is getting a sense of what a fan he was – he was so excited to play on stages where he had watched acts.  The discussions about how he wrote the songs and what they meant is fun.  Once he can afford drugs everyday, (I was high and did something stupid), it does become a little boring.

But, once I finished it, I was left with the conviction that Billy Idol is the greatest performance artist ever.  Better even than Trump.  I mean, he did name the book for his masturbation song, which is hilarious and punk as fuck. When discussing the writing of the song, he never mentions masturbation.  Instead, he says it was based on seeing Japanese teenagers dance with their own reflections.  Uh, huh. Fourteen year old me and my friends knew exactly what that song was about.  So, I’m not convinced that he is a reliable narrator.  I mean,  Billy, we’ve heard the song, and from reading the book, he is too smart for that.  So, again hilarious.

From the beginning of the book, it’s clear that his goal is to become a rock star.  He mentions watching and discussing performance artists, while perfecting his own performance.  The music that gets him there is secondary, despite the book’s focus on writing the music.  His real goal is to be a rock star.  His first meeting with Steve Stevens focused on what it means to be a rock star and only secondarily on what kind of music he wants to play.

His ultimate approach though, is to become a parody of a rock star.  His very name – Idol – is all about parodying the idea of a rock star.  And, he has always been a caricature or parody.  The leather, the hair, the first pumping, the sex, the drugs.  It can only be explained as parody.  Don’t believe me? Watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvTaDn03qtQ (preferably with the sound off – any 80s video with the sound off is hilarious).  Not only is he parodying being a rock star, he is parodying himself being a rock star and laughing while he does it.  I mean, c’mon, the cunnilingus thing, the humping Steve Stevens.  Seen that way, this video is an absolutely brilliant performance.  Too bad he bought into his own performance and completely descended into sex, drugs, and rock and roll as if he were a Roman emperor.

I’ve seen a lot of reviews of this book that talk about how he didn’t hold back and how sensitive it is[1].  My take is different.  My first thought on finishing the book was, “Christ, what an asshole!”  Yes, he’s careful to not throw other people under the bus.  He’s still an asshole.  If, every few pages you detail an example of how you were an asshole, you’re an asshole – drugs or not.  Finally, despite being a brilliant performance artist, I see him as an essentially shallow man who wrote an essentially shallow memoir.

Fifteen year old Tulip would have given anything to meet Billy Idol.  She would have dropped to her knees and blown him and done anything else he asked.  Such is the power of celebrity and image.  Today’s Tulip looks back and thinks…ick, not enough Lysol in the world. Unless, of course, my view of him as the ultimate performance artist is correct.  Then, I want to smoke a joint with him, and maybe meet  John Lydon[2].

On my stereo or on a stage, I like him just fine, but I have zero interest in meeting or fucking him.  I give his autobiography 4 out of 5 stars for the fantastic nostalgia trip it gave me and recommend it to any other child of the eighties.

 

 

 

 

[1]Even a review on Amazon that mentions his respect for women.  Whaaaa???  Did we read the same book?

[2]Interestingly, there are a lot of people who insist Billy Idol was never punk, just a hanger-on.  Johnny Rotten isn’t one of them.

Comments

260 responses to “Billy Idol”

  1. Spudalicious

    I listened to a lot of Billy Idol, back in the day.

    1. Old Man With Candy

      Did you want to blow him, too?

      1. Spudalicious

        I really couldn’t say for sure, it was a long time ago, but there may have been another type of blow involved.

      2. straffinrun

        A good lol right off the top.

  2. Donation Not Taxation

    Sounds like young Tulip Idolized him.

    1. Spudalicious

      I’ll bet she spent a lot of time dancing with herself.

  3. Has anyone here heard of OpenAudible? What is the reputation of the software? (Malware? Skeevy? Okay? Good? Superb?)

    1. Donation Not Taxation

      Heard of. Even have an account. Never used it. Maybe one of these days.

    2. DenverJ

      I’ve used Opendesktop. If it’s the same open source group, then it’s probably safer than corporate stuff, but won’t integrate with other programs as well, related to it being safer. In my experience, most open source software follows the same pattern.

  4. Donation Not Taxation

    “Billy Idol is the greatest performance artist ever. Better even than Trump.” “Unless, of course, my view of him as the ultimate performance artist is correct.”
    As not quite #1 performance artist, what do you want to do with or to Donald J. Trump?

    1. Tulip

      Eeww, nothing

  5. Rhywun

    Fourteen year old Tulip lurrvvved her some Billy Idol.

    So did fourteen-year-old Rhywun.

  6. Sean

    Wasn’t he in Buffy?

    ?

    1. Donation Not Taxation

      I heard that Billy Idol actually stole the look from Spike (season 7 episode 8).

      1. Rhywun

        Heh that sounds like something the writers would throw in.

        1. Chafed

          Yeah, I’m pretty sure Billy Idol was a thing before the show.

          1. Rhywun

            Right, but Spike was a punk in 70s NYC who murdered a watcher on the subway.

  7. Tulip

    I think the book is just another set piece in the performance of Billy Idol. He is totally an adolescent fantasy of a rock star and the book is very careful to support that fantasy. He doesn’t even have any hobbies until he gets a motorcycle, which supports that fantasy. That’s why I don’t think he’s a reliable narrator.

    1. Rhywun

      IRL he’s probably a chess nerd or something. And we’ll never know.

      1. blackjack

        He used to go the same “trying to quit drinking using twelve steps and not mentioning names” meeting as me. I really don’t remember much about him. In that setting at least he was unremarkable. I don’t even remember what he drove. Other big shots were around and I have much stronger impressions of them.

        1. Nephilium

          Only current band that does something like that which annoys me is Flogging Molly. The lead singer was forced to quit drinking by his wife (for multiple good reasons); however, he still goes up on stage with a Jameson’s bottle filled with tea. For fuck’s sake man, either drink or do not drink. Faking it isn’t doing you any favors.

          1. Heroic Mulatto

            *shrugs*

            It worked for Dean Martin.

          2. blackjack

            Yeah, we used to call the rock star contingent the 28 club.

  8. CPRM

    I know I really liked Cradle of Love when I was of a certain age, I don’t think it was so much for Idol or the music.

    1. Rhywun

      Wow, I forgot about that one.

      PS. OMG he’s playing in some town near me soon.

  9. Sean

    Also, I remember when MTV played music videos.

    /Get off my lawn.

    1. Rhywun

      I remember when MTV played The Hills, and the world endlessly mocked them for it. And now it’s coming back. (Yes, this is all over the tabloids lately.)

      I think it was Television Without Pity, their reviews of that show were fucking epic. And I never even watched that garbage.

      1. Nephilium

        I actually miss TWOP. It was decent for reviews of shows (both watched and unwatched).

        1. Tulip

          I loved TWOP. Got me through grad school sane.

    2. Spudalicious

      I remember the day MTV went live.

      *walks onto front porch with shotgun loaded with rock salt*

    3. DenverJ

      I fell in love with Kennedy way back when she was spinning vinyl videos on MTV.

      1. Old Man With Candy

        Sex with her is always coitus interruptus.

        1. Rhywun

          *snort*

        2. Chafed

          Hot damn! I’m sure you are right.

  10. Tacit Rainbow

    True Story.

    Sometime around 1993 or early 1994, Billy Idol made the terrible mistake of learning how to use a modem, run an IRC client on a shared host, and join #hack on EFNet. Everyone thought it was a joke until [some group of people] went to his ISP and IDed the phone line he was coming in from. It was from his place somewhere in LA. These heroes double checked the house and utilities to make sure.

    Yep. This was Billy Idol, basically shilling _Cyberpunk_ on #hack. Trying to be a celebrity. It did not end well.

    I suspect after that night, he never used the internet again.

    1. Scruffy Nerfherder

      Lol, that would have been epic.

      1. Tacit Rainbow

        It was epic, and it was cruel. I believe it took almost a week for his people to get the power back on there.

    2. Rhywun

      _Cyberpunk_

      Huh. Never heard of it. (Yeah, I had long since moved on.)

    3. Nephilium

      Ah… the early days of the internet and BBS’s. My parents probably should have kept a better eye on me as I met several people I knew only through local BBS’s back in high school.

  11. Scruffy Nerfherder

    The most interesting rockers are almost always performance artists. Idol, Bowie, Byrne, Mercury, Roth, etc…

    I’ve always preferred them to self important douchebags like Neil Young.

  12. CPRM

    To bolster the performance artist angle, Spider from PM5K who is openly a performance artist as well as rock star, has been embodying Billy Idol since PM5K dropped the Sci-Fi angle.

    1. Chafed

      I miss the sci-fi angle.

      He looks more like David St. Hubbens with a haircut.

  13. Sean

    *sigh*

    I just added some mousse to my Amazon shopping list.

    1. Rhywun

      Are you drunk again?

      1. Sean

        *hic*

        Possibly

    2. Spudalicious

      The shipping charges for moose must be epic!

      1. You can get it cheaper, but the delay for letting the moose walk can get lengthy.

      2. Rhywun

        A møusse once bit my sister.

        1. dbleagle

          You are sacked.

      3. Gustave Lytton

        But squirrel is a free add-on.

  14. Nephilium

    The original punk artist is Johnny Cash.

    /fight me.

      1. Nephilium

        Cash was first, but I’ll accept that as a decent argument to have over pints.

    1. straffinrun

      Whoever performed Gilgamesh first.

    2. Not Adahn

      I’ll fight. Nobody who was as deeply tied to the music business as he was (he married June Fucking Carter for Christ’s sake!) can be considered Punk.

      1. Nephilium

        How about the Ramones? Or the Sex Pistols?

        1. Not Adahn

          They at least embraced the DIY aesthetics.

          How many Christmas Albums can you put out before you become just a wee bit too corporate for punk?

          Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely love Johnny Cash. I have my Grandfather’s extensive collection of his works (unfortunately on cassette tape)

          1. Nephilium

            Bad Religion did a Christmas album as well. Hell, NOFX and Rancid have both started record labels.

          2. Not Adahn

            Starting your own label is very punk. It’s probably the most punk way you can get recordings out there other than to rely on your fans doing it unofficially.

          3. Rhywun

            Bad Religion did a Christmas album

            Because of course.

            I LOVED them back in the day.

    3. Trigger Hippie

      Richard Hell and the Voidiods
      The New York Dolls,….maybe more glam than punk but they had the attitude.

      1. Trigger Hippie

        Now I’m in the mood for some Richard Hell

        https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v9FkQLjOSZ8

    4. Old Man With Candy

      Hasil Adkins.

  15. OT: so, uhhh at lunch today the rabid feminist coworker that has been on my “avoid at all costs” list for a year struck up a conversation with me

    “hey trashy, I mentioned your name while talking to the execs when they were in town last week”

    “oh?”

    “yeah, I was talking with [insert chief diversity officer’s name here] and jokingly complained that I had to get past your and [insert another attorney’s name here]’s manspreading to talk to him”

    *stunned glare*

    “yeah, I don’t think he found it all that funny.”

    *continued stunned glare*

    So, I just sent off an email to my boss to at least get it on the record that she went to a c-suite officer of HR and “jokingly” accused me of something that would get me hauled in front of an HR tribunal. I also laid down an ultimatum that I will never work on any project that requires me to be alone with her, and I would prefer to not work on any project with her at all, ever. Mike Pence had it right.

    1. … stories like this make me glad that I almost have to commit a felony to get fired.

      1. The ironic thing is that when she sat down next to me at this meeting, I remember thinking that I needed to tuck my legs together lest she think I’m manspreading…

        1. Spudalicious

          Look at the misogynist, over here.

      2. blackjack

        You guys get fired for felonies?

        1. Depends on the felony.

    2. Nephilium

      There’s advantages to working remote. And with no other employees of your company in the office you work in. In other news, I got a soft offer for a position with a 75% pay raise, but with no benefits (and a paid relocation). The girlfriend and I have been discussing it.

      1. Rhywun

        Where to?

        1. Nephilium

          Las Vegas. It’s the third time this year I’ve been contacted for (what I’m guessing) is the same position. The first two times where in April, when I was out there for Viva (but they were offering the same salary as my current one then).

          1. Rhywun

            Yikes. I dunno. A 75% raise might just barely make it tempting to me. Otherwise, hard fucking pass.

          2. Nephilium

            It was a two year contract. I could easily pay for my current house (and either rent it or offer it to my niece), and rent a place there while saving a large amount of money. The girlfriend loves Vegas, and I enjoy it. I’m quite sure it would be different if I was living there.

            At the same pay, it was a hard pass (especially with the loss of all benefits), but the 75% raise makes it an interesting offer.

          3. CPRM

            Living there is like living in a giant Hot suburb, where you can be on the strip in a matter of minutes.

          4. SP

            And you could easily drive down to visit OMWC/SP!

          5. Nephilium

            SP: I’ll be in Vegas over Easter weekend next year for the next Viva Las Vegas. Off strip, rockabilly, classic cars, burlesque, Charles Phoenix, and more.

            The girlfriend has decided she wants the next roadtrip to be going through West Virginia for some reason. She’s never been there… I have.

          6. blackjack

            +1 mountain mama.

          7. Rhywun

            God, that song is so good.

    3. Rhywun

      I don’t get it. Like, literal “manspreading”?

      1. Yes, literal manspreading. She “jokingly” complained to the chief diversity officer of the company that she was being oppressed because my knees weren’t touching for the entirety of a 2 hour meeting.

        1. CPRM

          When I first heard this term I was all ‘Don’t these people realize that’s where the balls are? I’m not going to crush my balls.’ Biology class has no place in the workforce wokeforce.

          1. DenverJ

            Pretend that I insert a link to “I’ve Got Big Balls” or whatever it’s called.

          2. MikeS

            This* is better than that shitty cover version of a rock classic.

            *Put your headphones on if you work somewhere that has a “Chief Diversity Officer”

    4. Sean

      “Chief diversity officer”

      Never.
      Ever.
      Ever.

      Not for triple my salary. Not for 10 times my salary.

      Comfy and happy is hard to beat.

      1. Not Adahn

        Are you kidding? Ten times my salary and my job description literally allows me to persecute people I don’t like for no reason whatsoever? What self-respecting sadist and/or misanthrope wouldn’t murder a puppy for that job?

        1. While I’d take the job, I’d never work at a place that has one.

          1. This is very quickly pushing me from “not a great work environment, but the benefits more than make up for it” to “get out before you have your career destroyed”

          2. You have enough red flags to stage a mayday parade.

          3. For shizzle. I’ve had a pretty decent run of Spideysense for when I’m about to get the shaft at a job. It usually starts with an episode similar to what trshmnstr’s describing. Not in the sense of going before HR for sexual harassment, but in that initial brush with someone just kind of casually, carelessly stitching me up. I’ve been jobbed before, and it’s a bitch; now when I sense something like that coming I BCC/forward emails to another one of my email addresses and start looking for other jobs just in case.

          4. Yup, documented everything I could, and have sent out 4 resumes already tonight. I’m not choosy, just need some options.

          5. DenverJ

            “You have enough red flags to stage a mayday parade”
            That’s great! Yours?

          6. Nope, Denver, stole it from somewhere else online.

          7. R C Dean

            I would neither be, nor work for an organization that had, a CDO.

      2. DenverJ

        For ten times my salary, I’d be the public executioner.

    5. Scruffy Nerfherder

      You chose wisely

    6. Heroic Mulatto

      Christ, what an asshole.

    7. KSuellington

      You gotta hold a penny between those knees at the next meeting if you want to maintain your purity trashy.

  16. Winston

    The only real punk was Rudy Vallee.

    1. Winston

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crooner

      his success brought press warnings of the “Vallee Peril”: this “punk from Maine” with the “dripping voice” required mounted police to “beat back crowds of screaming and swooning females” at his vaudeville shows.[6]

    2. Nephilium

      /starts a circle pit around Winston

      Sure about that?

        1. Nephilium

          Words definitely change over time.

          1. Winston

            However the “back in my day we listened to real music!” has never changed.

          2. blackjack

            I feel that way and I choose to believe that, in my case, it’s true.

          3. mikey

            In my case it IS true dammit.

            https://youtu.be/u0Ujb6lJ_mM

          4. DenverJ

            That’s my biggest bitch about music: people get stuck in High School/ College music was the best ever, and proceed to play the same 40 songs over and over and over until they die.
            When I first hit the workforce, end of the eighties, up until at least late 90s, every boss at every jobsite was the end of the boomers, and every radio was tuned to Classic Rock. Fuck! Would you watch the same movie or tv show over and over? Or would you maybe check out the new releases?
            I’m turning 50 in a couple months, and I am always looking for either new music, or old music that I haven’t heard yet.
            Also, I can live the rest of my life perfectly happy to never hear Led Zeppelin or Floyd again.

          5. Rhywun

            Same. I hardly listen to anything that I grew up with. Once in a while is enough.

          6. blackjack

            You mean like this.

          7. blackjack

            Or

          8. blackjack

            Or this?

  17. Tundra

    I love him. No homo.

    But I have no interest in his bio.

    I’ve learned to not learn too much about the people who bring me music, books, products, whatever.

    I also love this :

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ncEjFI9OXEM

    1. Well that ‘s just like a product of your generation, dude.

      1. Spudalicious

        Sherman, set the Way Back machine.

      1. Nephilium

        What about breakfast?

        1. CPRM

          3 guys, singing about brunch? Um, I’m not into that lifestyle, you do you.

          1. Nephilium

            Maybe this is more your style. You may even see some of the same people in this video (since there’s a strong link between the Nekromantix and HorrorPops).

    2. Tulip

      This is a favorite of mine https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3blSz0Jg1iw

      1. Tundra

        Yep.

        I forgot to say how much I loved this article, Tulip. Thanks for writing it.

        1. straffinrun

          Ditto. Easy to read and brought evoked some nostalgia.

  18. Winston

    Does anyone else find it hilarious that rock and punk are now the old men yelling at clouds?

    1. Heroic Mulatto

      Yes.

      1. Winston

        It was true then and even more so now…

    2. Tulip

      Yes

    3. Nephilium

      Punk still exists in that it’s an accepting culture, where even my girlfriend was able to fit in (and she’s about as far from punk as you can imagine). We’re there for the music, and the camaraderie of the pit. The nudity, drugs, and alcohol are just a bonus.

      1. Heroic Mulatto

        We’re there for the music, and the camaraderie of the pit.

        1. Nephilium

          No. The gay kid was worried he was going to get his boyfriend (F->M) pregnant and was bitching about needing to learn how to wear a condom again.

        2. AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH!!!!

          Ah, jeez, every time that one gets me. It’s the expression on the dog’s face.

          1. Heroic Mulatto

            He does seem nonplussed about the whole affair.

    4. straffinrun

      I’d rather listen to an old man yelling at clouds than anything punk. It was rebellious and embraced the exuberance of youth. Fine. Don’t tell me it sounded good, though.

      1. Winston

        It was rebellious and embraced the exuberance of youth. Fine. Don’t tell me it sounded good, though.

        What good is music that doesn’t piss off some old fogey? Also emphasis on “was”.

        1. Heroic Mulatto

          I’m already pissed off that Generation Z will be yeeting on our graves while listening to shit like this.

      2. Winston

        And this is nothing new: ragtime, Jazz and crooners went from rebellious Yute Music to Old Man Music and so on…

      3. Sure it did, you just needed better musicians.

        1. straffinrun

          Better. At least it doesn’t sound like a 3 year old fingering a cat.

          1. I’ll have to take your word on that

          2. Not Adahn

            THAT’S why cats are so friendly in Japan!

          3. straffinrun

            ” A Q tip will make them stop moaning when in heat.” Actual advice from a Japanese guy I know.

  19. straffinrun

    My first experience with Billy Idol. At 13, I got busted one afternoon for smoking weed and falling asleep on Dairy Queen’s lawn. The school counselor and my parents gave me a choice between going to in house treatment for two weeks or business camp for a week. FBLA. I choose FBLA. Don’t remember much of the camp itself other than the “Dance party” they had on the final day. Bunch of zit faced guys and dorky girls slow dancing made me jones hard. The DJ put on “Mony, Mony” and every kid in the gym screamed the obligatory “Get laid, get fucked!”. Never heard that before. Restored my faith in humanity.

    1. Tundra

      This guy gets it.

      *throws glass at straffin*

      1. straffinrun

        *That should say “At 15 or 16”. 13 was when I got busted for crashing my bicycle after drinking whiskey for the first time.

    2. CPRM

      First time I’ve ever heard of it.

      1. Tulip

        Did you never hear it at a bar or club?

        1. CPRM

          I’m pretty sure it’s been played on the juke box while I’ve been at the bar. I’ve never heard that refrain before though.

      2. straffinrun

        Type “Everybody get laid, get fucked” into YouTube search and I bet it’s the top video.

          1. straffinrun

            *Sets down bong*. Whoa. That exact video was playing in another window when I clicked that link.

      3. Have you heard about how the roof is on fire?

        1. CPRM

          Yes, and I’m always confused why there is no water.

          1. Heroic Mulatto

            Because we don’t need no water.

          2. Not Adahn

            Let the motherfucker burn.

  20. Raphael

    Thanks for the write-up, Tulip. Shame he wasn’t as cool IRL as when he was in The Wedding Singer.

    1. CPRM

      WARTY Comb Jelly. Hahaha!

      1. Not Adahn

        Yup. He has a transitory anus, which means it is literally impossible to rape him unless he is actively shitting.

  21. SP

    Great post, Tulip! 🙂

    1. CPRM

      Who is in charge of scheduling posts these days? Sir Digby wrote an article at my behest that he has asked me to shepherd through the process. So who should I send it to? And also I would request a place holder for a cartoon next week. I don’t have one done, but I will.

      1. R C Dean

        Go to your profile page, look for Posts, click New Post. When it’s baked, click Submit to put it down n SP’s queue.

        1. CPRM

          It’s not my post, it’s Sir Digby’s that he has asked me to help out with.

      2. SP

        I’ll go set him up so he can add it himself. When it’s ready to go just put [Ready to Review] at the end of the subject line. We have an editorial team that looks at and scheduled stuff depending on work/life etc.

        As far as I know, none of us ever got a submission form from him, but that’s fine.

        I asked him about it the other night when he mentioned it, but I guess he was already gone.

        1. CPRM

          He said something about a pitch. I dunno. So he’ll get the same submission add a post thing I get on the dashboard then?

          1. SP

            Yeah, nobody saw an official pitch. Maybe he just commented off-hand to one of TPTB. Beats me. Whatever; doesn’t matter.

            He will indeed have the same post thing in his dashboard after I upgrade his account. It will be after dinner sometime before I get that done, though.

          2. CPRM

            Ok, I don’t know what all he’s done, but the article he asked me to proof is great. Thanks.

  22. Tundra

    Punk is hard to define. EDG is our resident expert, but I think even he’d have describing what makes a band ‘punk’. Even the punk bands of the time made fun of the punks.

    Hint: it’s not clothes, hair or swearing.

    I think GBV is the greatest punk ever, even after growing up with the Replacements and Husker Du.

    Fight me.

    1. Nephilium

      /Hands Tundra a beer

      No the Damned, The Adicts, Sham 69, UK Subs, Dead Kennedys, Stiff Little Fingers, or Theater of Hate?

      1. Rhywun

        I was never really into “punk” per se – more post-punk. Hence, I love mid-to-latter day The Damned. I can tolerate DKs. That’s it for that list.

      2. Tundra

        *gratefully accepts beer*

        Yes, those are all great bands and definitely qualify as punk.

        Agent Orange, Suicidal Tendencies, Minor Threat, Bad Brains… where do you stop?

        Punk to me is a band that checks the prevailing winds and goes the other way. They don’t have to limit themselves to three chords and anger.

        1. Nephilium

          /toasts Tundra

          Punk to me is the DIY mentality, with music that may not be the most technically proficient, but the lyrics tell a story that works. I’ll stand up against anyone who says that Glad to be Gay isn’t a punk song. It’s also got a big dose of fuck you, I’ll do what I want in it.

          1. Tulip

            That DIY spirit is the essence to me. I just finished a different rock autobiography I may write up as well. Also out of the 70s early 80s that is a real contrast, both the music and the man.

          2. Tundra

            Sure, but that DIY ethic exists in every genre of music.

            What makes it punk?

          3. Tulip

            Not to the same level. Punk was about not worrying about the rules as much. That’s the best I got.

          4. Tundra

            Not trying to be difficult, but how is funk not punk?

            Parliament didn’t appear to adhere to any rules.

        2. Checking wind is so not punk.

          It’s all semantics anyway but The Mothers were less punk (musically) than the Kinks, argue that, but frank was/is the punkest punk of them all, played a fuckin bicycle on Fred Allen’s show .. Jesus wept.

          1. Tundra

            Maybe not.

            Good example, too.

          2. CPRM

            Where does Denver The Last Dinosaur fall?

    2. Ownbestenemy

      You are right, it is hard to define but I always took it as outside the norm of what culture thought was what we were supposed to wear, listen to, style, etc.

      I’ve argued that Americana can be punk in certain situations.

      1. Tundra

        I’ve argued that Americana can be punk in certain situations.

        Excellent. Exactly right.

        1. Ownbestenemy

          A hockey teammate years ago helped shape what punk was. Its a mentality of individualism. He would go to a Vandals show one night and listen to Greenday or Ice Cube the next.

          1. Nephilium

            Not Ice-T?

          2. Ownbestenemy

            Nice

          3. Rhywun

            Nice – I didn’t know that existed.

          4. Nephilium

            The girlfriend didn’t even know that Ice-T had a metal/punk band back in the day.

            /pours another beer.

          5. Timeloose

            Body count?

          6. Timeloose

            There goes the neighborhood

          7. Rhywun

            Nah, the remake.

    3. gbob

      For me punk was always the second wave of punk. DK, Black Flag, Minor Threat. Then again, that was the first music that really hit me hard. I grew up loving blues, but after somebody put on “Fresh Fruit For Rotting Vegatbles” at a party, I dove headfirst into it. Went from polo shirts and carrying a briefcase full of D and D books to wearing torn shirts and shaving my head. It’s pure nostalgia, but most music is.

      That being said, I consider Hasil Adkins the greatest punk. Insanity mixed with a DIY aesthetic.

      https://youtu.be/8Cio5mgjDXw

      1. JaimeRoberto: Gentleman, Scholar, French Tickler

        The Dead Kennedys played at my high school under the name Pink Twinkies. Like an idiot I didn’t go because I didn’t believe it was really them.

        1. Rhywun

          Wat? Did you attend like the coolest HS in the US or something??

          1. Chafed

            Obviously

  23. R C Dean

    Chicks are weird.

    Still, this post took me back. Nice, Tulip.

  24. Hyperion

    Best Billy Idol song is Flesh for Fantasy. It’s not even close.

  25. grrizzly

    Unlike Mexico, Russia sends their best here.

    The convicted Russian “spy” Maria Butina has become a teacher in a Tallahassee prison.

    In total, Masha teaches four disciplines: mathematics, English, probability theory, and social studies. For example, as a part of social studies, she teaches the foundations of the democratic system of the United States.

    1. Some ex-FBI guy who now does sports stuff for some reason was on a local DC radio station and he was going on about how there are spies everywhere and Maria Butina was one of them. He then defined “spy” as a foreign national who comes to the US to do lobbying, and declared that Butina et al “infiltrated” American political groups to encourage members to take pro-Russia stances and to recruit potential agents. My eyes rolled so hard I nearly gave myself an aneurysm.

      1. Rhywun

        But don’t pay attention to the hundreds of “Confucius Institutes” popping up at every college.

        1. Heroic Mulatto

          CIs are actually closing up shop on many campuses.

          1. Rhywun

            Huh.

          2. Heroic Mulatto

            Part of it has been due to pressure from our government, particularly when it comes to visa issuance, and part of it is just the greater trend of universities closing their modern languages and area studies departments.

          3. Rhywun

            I took a language class at NYC’s China Institute a long time ago. No idea how “political” that outfit is. Though their history page looks pretty damn political to me.

  26. R C Dean

    Jesus. Just saw a winter weather advisory for the northern Rockies. MUH GLOBAL WARMING!!

    It’s the day before Summer starts. I think someone needs to check the thermostat on the climate models.

    1. Nephilium

      Screw that. Can it just stop raining yet?

  27. I remember I was about 5 when I started seeing a lot of Billy Idol on MTV. My 25 year old aunt was the big musical influence on me at the time–to the extent I had one at 5–and she was more of a Boomtown Rats girl herself. She could not get enough of Bob Geldof. I was aware of Billy Idol and I think even then I got that he wasn’t trying to be taken seriously.

  28. Winston

    https://www.loudersound.com/features/i-tried-to-do-a-review-of-the-national-and-ended-up-writing-the-worst-thing-you-can-write

    The old rock legends continued to be sneered at as coffin-dodgers and paedos, while bands like The National were attacked for the very things the music press used to love about them: because they were smart, worthy, authentic. They could – spit! – play their instruments and write their own songs, like that mattered!

    But mostly because they were that most unfashionable of things: white males with guitars.

    “The National makes me feel that rock music, like much of American literature and visual art before it, has died and gone to graduate school,” wrote Carl Wilson in a review for Slate. “The band delivers certifiable Quality-with-a-capital-Q, a perfect product of the English and music departments—the way that Lady Gaga is a perfect product of the semiotics department and an MBA program, though I definitely prefer Lady Gaga.

    “At my most extreme, I’d even claim that The National reflects the way social and economic stratification are narrowing the space for cultural free agency and rewarding artists who straightforwardly serve either the libido of the mass market or the neurotic narcissism of the privileged classes.”

    Er, yeah. Like, that’s what I was gonna say. That’s the Voice Of The People right there!

    (The Poptimists will probably hate this, but Poptimism has much in common with the political populism that has brought us Trump and Brexit, in that it argues that an educated, elitist class has been telling us what to do/how to live/who to love for decades – and now it’s “our” turn. It’s the revenge of the masses. In this case, Revenge On The Nerds.

    And actually, it fits the ‘rock narrative’ quite nicely. Queen, Elton, Motley Crue have something in common – for much of their careers, despite enormous popular success, they were mocked by the likes of Rolling Stone and NME. Now the shoe’s on the other foot, fucko. Now, they drive clicks. And that’s really all that matters.)

    1. Nephilium

      So they never heard of the Descendents?

      1. Winston

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Descendents

        The Descendents are a punk rock band formed in 1977

        So old….

        1. Nephilium

          Winston,

          I’ve tried to be nice, but I believe it’s now time for this.

          The Descendents are still touring, and still kick ass live. The Damned, FEAR, and Suicidal Tendencies were all great to see live a couple weeks ago (someone even smuggled in a Pepsi for ST).

          1. Winston

            (someone even smuggled in a Pepsi for ST.

            Ah….

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institutionalized_(song)

  29. Timeloose

    I was a big fan all throughout the 80’s. I was a GenX fan in my early punk phase then a big fan of his pop rock solo stuff.

    I didn’t get a chance to see him until 2015. I was not disappointed. He did a bunch of hits followed by some great GenX songs.

    1. Tundra

      I saw him in the ’80s. St. Paul Civic Center, I believe. Open act was Dez Dickerson (Prince’s guitarist).

      I remember it fondly, especially all the ‘punk’ chicks.

      Yum.

  30. Winston

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/20/cars-cities-land-rover-pollution-urban-spaces

    So this is where Ireland is getting it from. And isn’t Fine Gael the “right-wing” party?

    What is the best way of wrecking a city? Pour cars into it. Heavy traffic, 50 years of research shows, breaks up communities, disrupts social life and crushes local cultures. Noise drowns out conversation and drives people indoors. Pollution makes streets inhospitable. Cars take up the space that might have been used for children to play, adults to meet, and local projects to grow.

    The fashion for SUVs is one of the two main reasons for rising road deaths among pedestrians
    Street life is treated as an impediment to traffic. In cities all over the world it has been cleared for cars. Stalls, hawkers, football and cricket games, old people playing dominoes, chess or pétanque: all must make way for the car. So much land is required for driving and parking that there is little left for human life. In cities like Barcelona that curb traffic, cars use about 25% of the urban area. In cities like Houston that don’t, they use 60%. The car eats the public space that could otherwise become parks, cycle lanes, markets and playgrounds.

    ….

    These ads help to normalise antisocial – even pathological – behaviour. Just as we need to radically reduce the use of cars, for the sake of both human health and planetary survival (the mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, has just announced a car-free day in September to highlight this need), the manufacturers seek to drag us back into the 20th century.

    In his book Unlocking Sustainable Cities, Paul Chatterton argues that controlling the car is the first and most important step towards creating friendly and vibrant cities. He points to the work of architects such as Jan Gehl – who seek to reclaim the space now captured by cars, to allow “life between buildings” to flourish.

    Neither electric cars nor driverless cars will solve our problems. They take up as much space as fossil-powered vehicles. Electric cars are already triggering a series of environmental disasters, due to the rush for lithium, cobalt and nickel required to make their batteries. Driverless cars are likely to exacerbate congestion and accelerate climate breakdown, because of the energy demands of the data centres required to control them.

    It makes far more sense to build electrified mass transit. But those whose profits depend on urban carmageddon go to great lengths to thwart it. In the United States, Americans for Prosperity, a group founded and funded by the Koch brothers, has set up campaigns to fight new bus and light-rail schemes. It has managed to stop public transport systems in several states. The Kochs made much of their vast fortune from oil refining and asphalt production.

    1. Caput Lupinum

      First, “right wing” is a relative position, and meaningless without understanding the stances of the other political parties in Ireland. Second, “right wing” doesn’t mean the same thing in a European context as it does in America’s context. Third, Fine Gael describes themselves as progressive centrists, not as right wing.

      1. Winston

        Anyway from what I can gather the real difference between Fianna Fail and Fine Gael was the Civil War which is quite different from typical European politics. Fine Gael was traditionally pro-Catholic and has been allied with Labour so…

    2. Gustave Lytton

      I blame Matthew Broderick.

      1. Winston

        No one puts Baby in a corner…

  31. Raston Bot

    Let’s get real.. Idol was pop.

    1. Spudalicious

      Pop/Rock. There was some crossover.

  32. Raston Bot

    HVAC question: should the outdoor unit be encased in ice while my indoor living area is warm? I’m guessing not.

    1. No. It means you need to dehumidify the outdoors, and check your thermostat.

      1. Raston Bot

        Of course!

      2. Rhywun

        I wish I could dehumidify the last week or so. Holy crap.

    2. CPRM

      Mr Freeze Killer Frost Captain Cold strikes again!

    3. Spudalicious

      You’re overwhelming the system.

  33. Chafed

    I need advice from the Gliberati. My youngest got braces and can barely eat. It’s been some time since I bought ice cream. Is Blue Bunny any good? Tillamook? Breyer?

    1. Tundra

      DQ Blizzard.

      1. Chafed

        Surprisingly that wasn’t available in Walmart.

    2. Rhywun

      Breyer’s is good. Can’t speak for the others.

      1. Tundra

        Is that the one with the vanilla bean bits? It is fantastic.

        1. Rhywun

          I dunno, I haven’t had it in decades. In the eighties they had these gourmet tubs – my go-to was coffee ice cream & chocolate ice cream & chocolate chunks. My god it was sublime.

      2. Chafed

        Thanks

    3. Ownbestenemy

      A nice carnival candied apple

      1. Chafed

        I was thinking rock candy, taffy, or snickers.

        1. straffinrun

          Corn on the cob?

          1. Rhywun

            Popcorn.

    4. straffinrun

      They opened a Cold Stone in Shibuya a few years back. Good stuff. Got that where you are?

      1. Raphael

        What? Friggin Tokyoites and their fancy ice cream. We just have 1 “31” somewhere in my prefecture.

        1. Gustave Lytton

          And probably Rich Milk in any random konbini.

    5. mindyourbusiness

      Edy’s ain’t half bad.

    6. Timeloose

      Blue bunny is ok. Bryers is great.

    7. OneOut

      Blue Bell is the best ice cream hands down no discussion.

      1. Nephilium

        Do you not have Mitchell’s, Honey Hut, East Coast, or Graeter’s?

        1. Old Man With Candy

          Graeter’s. As far as major chain or grocer distributed ice cream, it’s as good as it gets.

          Best ice cream ever, though, is only available at one spot- Baugher’s in Westminster.

      2. Extra Lysteria is free.

    8. Gustave Lytton

      Look at the ingredients list. Most have added guar gum or carageenan or similar for that fake creaminess. Rag on Haagen-Dazs but they put out a good ice cream without it, at least the basic flavors. The salted caramel double chocolate fudge marshmallow chip ones are as bad as the others. I miss when Tillamook was a regional creamery and put out both good ice cream and cheese.

      1. Rhywun

        Look at the ingredients list.

        Was thinking the same. Breyers had those commercials highlighting that.

  34. Tundra

    Not punk, but nice.

    Goodnight Glibs. I hope we revisit this topic again!

    1. Rhywun

      That album is one of those from my youth that still gets frequent play – it’s so good.

  35. straffinrun

    You watch the kid play and forget that he is in fact still a kid. This was a nice interview and I’ll be hoping he doesn’t turn into a narcissistic prick. For now, it’s hard not to be rooting for him.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMidlVTaubY

  36. egould310

    “Interestingly, there are a lot of people who insist Billy Idol was never punk, just a hanger-on. Johnny Rotten isn’t one of them.”

    Billy Idol and Gen X were punk as fuck.
    https://youtu.be/2CymRRxSaV8

    We made our shirts with sprays and knives
    Then we saved up for weeks for Malcolm’s strides
    Our hair was short we said what we thought
    We’d never be scared [we’d] never be bought
    Never sell out like they did – they did

    Promises Promises
    Do you remember the promises promises – I do-
    Do you remember the promises promises – I do-

    Soon you’ll get your gear form Marks and Sparks
    Punk’ll take over Top of the Pops
    Think you’re having a real cool time?
    Watch out kid you’re next in line – Oh Yeah

    Do you remember the promises promises – I do-
    Do you remember the promises promises – I do-

    Where were you in ’75
    When there weren’t no gigs and we were jive
    (Promises promises promises remember)
    No one gave a shit for our Rock’n’Roll dream
    R men laughed re-release the Cream
    (Promises promises promises remember)
    And they thought we were stupid
    And they thought we were stupid
    And we promised we’d get back get back
    Do you remember the Promises Promises
    Do you remember the Promises Promises
    What I do, what I do, what I do, what
    I do, I do, I do, what I do, what I do

    Promises promises promises remember
    Promises promises promises remember
    Promises promises promises remember
    Promises promises promises remember

    1. Don Escaped Texas

      a vat of butane ignited

      makes no sense

      and I told you people: no wool

  37. AlmightyJB

    “Tulip relives her youthful fantasies and lets us watch.”

    I was hoping for something a little bit different:). Lol. Nicely done Tulip!

  38. l0b0t

    Saw him in San Francisco on his first tour back after his accident. Such an awesome show; he worked his cane and leg brace into his costumes and at one point, the gritty cityscape set in the background came to life and giant buildings were dancing around. I went with my barracksmate, his girlfriend, and her friend as a blind date. We started kissing during Blue Highway and didn’t stop until the show was over. Good times… Thanks Tulip.