Let’s assume that nothing in Part I worked, and we have one group of people bound and determined to rule another one. In order to prevent a shooting war, we agree to split the population apart in such a way that prevents authority from being exerted across some new boundaries. How do we do this? Here are some ideas. Again, like the previous this is mostly to inspire creative ideas or at least entertaining arguments among the Glibertariat.
Ideas 1-4: the various sorts of “-exit” scenarios that have been floated before, which you don’t need me to reiterate here. Free Cascadia!
Idea 5: Matched Cal- and Texit. California and Texas are simultaneously split off into their own countries, The Democratic People’s Red Star Commonwealth and the Second Lone Star Republic. If we wanted to be complete dicks about this, we would draw the boundaries starting at the state line, but retaining adjacent counties that wished to remain part of the Untied States. A set period of time, say 20-50 years would then elapse, at the end of which time either of the two new countries could apply to rejoin the union or other states in the US could apply to TNCOTB.
Idea 6: The rise of the City-States. When a municipality reaches a certain population, it can build a wall along its boundaries and be granted self-rule. At that point, the residents of that city-state cease to have voting rights in state and federal elections. The HoR seats would also be re-apportioned. The City-State status could also be imposed by a plebiscite of the non-city state residents with some sort of overwhelming majority (2/3 at least) being required for passage. I actually kind of like that idea, since the Great Divide here seems to be less geographic, and more urban/rural. I also like the idea of Escape from New York and Escape from LA being things that would actually happen. But mainly I like the idea of the population centers having to deal with the agricultural people as equals rather than simply imposing their desires on them from mere dint of numbers.
You may now begin to tell me what an idiot I am.
Comments
311 responses to “Political Daydreams Part II: The Great Divorce”
Why not? Calizuela here we come!
The rise of the City-States.
Like I said last week . . . build walls . . . lots of them.
I’ve mused a bit in the past about bringing back the city-state. I do think it would make sense for the megalopolises (NY, LA, Bay Area, etc) in the situation we’re in now.
Possibly. Obviously there’d be a lot of things to think through like tax policy, how you would treat people from outside the city-state who worked there, etc. There’s also the hinterland question. Most of the old c-s were fairly small by today’s standards and had fairly easy access to farmland, etc. Not saying it couldn’t work (however unlikely it may be), there’s just layers of complexity.
I think it makes a helluva lot more sense and would be much more feasible (still incredibly unlikely, of course) than some sort of national split. There simply isn’t any kind of neat geographic divide here.
Agree with this.
There simply isn’t any kind of neat geographic divide here.
There rarely is, and yet places still get divided by geography. Consider this comparison of county votes in two US presidential elections:
2016
1860
In the election right before the Civil War, the pro-union parties won 51% of the vote in Georgia, and the pro-Southern party won 37% of the vote in Pennsylvania (and 6% in Maine!). Divisions are never clean, even when tempers run high enough to result in war.
Trump won almost 20% of the vote in Brooklyn. Take out the base cohorts that the Dems control nearly 100%, and the vote would have been much closer.
5D Chess. Several southern states threatened to secede if Lincoln were elected. Georgia backs Lincoln to hasten the secession.
Oh, no, no one in Georgia voted for Lincoln, but the majority supported the Union. There were four parties vying for election: the anti-slavery Republicans, two pro-union parties (i.e. keep the status quo), and one pro-Southern party (the never-Lincoln folks). Majorities in Georgia, Louisiana, Tennessee, and Virginia backed the pro-Union folks over the never-Lincoln folks, yet when the chips were down those states seceded anyway. And one state, Delaware, voted pro-Southern but opted to remain in the Union.
Denser population areas will have disproportionate power over less-dense areas unless an absolute demarcation is established. If democracy determines how the guns get pointed, then NYC can literally enslave as many farmers as they would need to sustain themselves.
Which is why we need walls, big walls, great walls.
Yup.
“Guns. Lots of guns.”
I’ve started my collection.
We can start with a wall around Chicago.
How I wish my gunsafe looked.
doesn’t that render it more of a gun cupboard?
. . . doesn’t that render it more of a gun cupboard?
I was thinking more of Costco’s new “Guns ‘R Us!” mega-warehouse, coming soon to a city near you.
Yosemite Sam’s Club
I think city-states would only work for a brief period of time. The problem with the idea is that the progs in the city would be outraged when the local farmers
charged them market pricesgouged them for food.With no Federal farm subsidies, food prices will vary much more. This will convince the urban progs that the farmers are obviously cheating them. My gut tells me that they would begin confiscating crops that the farmers tried to sell to them. Then they’d be stunned that farmers stopped coming to the city.
Fortunately the proggie hordes don’t like guns and aren’t militarily-inclined, so they would be hard pressed to do anything about it.
What are you talking about? They are masters at playing GTA so they are totes legit bad asses!
Yeah, right.
-1 James Wesley Rawles’s “Golden Horde”
In turn, the farmers would cut the cities’ power and water lines and ambush the repair crews.
Cities really are very vulnerable (and very large) resource sinks. Cutting their supply lines would very quickly invoke the Rule of Threes on the city’s population — three minutes without air, three days without water or three weeks without food: any one of those will kill you.
Wait a minute. Isn’t that idea from Snow Crash?
Diamond Age, too, maybe?
The implication is that Diamond Age evolved out of the world of Snow Crash. That all the various quasi-natural franchises had evolved into somewhat decentralized claves of various types (Neo-victorians, the revived Confucian China, the Zulu-nation). I mean, the head mistress at the school is suppose to be an older YT, so there’s a continuity there.
Was that before or after Neil DeGrasse Tyson got cucked by some chicks when he was literally the last man on (ok, from) Earth?
I think that was a different universe.
Its been years since I read it, but I believe the idea in Snow Crash was that the fed gov became so atrophied and ineffectual that private gated communities attracted more and more people.
My confusion came in when I realized it was supposed to be a dystopia, not a utopia.
iirc, it was debt default and hyperinflation what done it. Crypto currencies made taxation irrelevant, and the Fed couldn’t print its way of bankruptcy.
Yeah, there’s the short story that bridges Cryptonomicon to Snow Crash that makes it explicit that it was the combo of Crypto-currencies and hyperinflation that did it.
It was? I didn’t get that sense at all.
I thought Snow Crash was supposed to be DYStopia and Diamond Age was supposed to be Utopia.
No way – he was having such a great time making fun of the FedGov, like how the mom had to show up to her government job early for no reason and bring her own TP etc.
I don’t think it was either type of Topia. I think it was simply a futurist prediction of where things could head. I don’t think he saw it as dystopic though. Esp. not after having just read all of his major novels except Seven Eves again in order. He’s got a libertarianish streak. I could go on about it.
One man’s utopia is another’s dystopia?
Its pretty damn clear in his modern/near modern fiction. He seems to respect competence and think government is a necessary evil at best — IF his repeated characterization of his heroes and heroines reflect his actual opinion. I don’t know why he would return to that if it didn’t, but then again, I’m not sure every female romance writer wants to ravished by every super-competent (except for one thing the woman can contribute) and attractive man she comes into contact with.
I would not want to be in a relationship with any man I write.
I thought that was Oath of Fealty?
It was more franchise states. Mr. Lee’s Greater Hong Kong, or the New South Africa franchises for example. The various ‘burbs were gated communities but they were also franchised and networked together so to speak. But yeah
Damn it! I was looking to make a Mr. Lee’s Greater Hong Kong joke here.
And the various city states also had their own currency which was used for commerce instead of the Fed Bux which had suffered hyperinflation.
I think my idea 7 below is more in line with Snow Crash.
Back in the old days at TOS, I said the states comprising the Louisiana Purchase should break off by themselves. We’d let Texas come along if they want.
As long as the Oklahomans don’t come.
I’m afraid that Oklahoma is right in the middle of the purchase.
That’s fine, Oklahoma is OK.
But they have to change their name to North Texas.
The good news is that they already have a university.
Polytechnic University of North Texas has a really shitty football team.
Y’all can have everything north of whatever is just south of Waco. West?
West has the best kolaches. It is known.
OK, after the PUNT joke, I was worried about you. But, you are correct-It IS known.
While we’re talking secession, let’s not forget the new Alaska Free State.
Make Alaska Русская Again!
Also, while this horse has been pulverized to dust, credit where it’s due: Robby ToBeSure has written another very good piece on the dreading smirking teenagers of oppression.
Are he and ENB bring catty to each other at the fruit sushi bar?
Weigel in Drag is retweeting Anna fuckin’ Merlan whining about how white teenage shitlords need to learn about tribal drumming so, yeah, I imagine they are.
This is what she retweeted:
Anna Merlan
Verified account
@annamerlan
19h19 hours ago
More
Also— and then I’ll stop-some of you could stand to learn about the use of drums as medicine and ceremony among some Native people and stop repeating the racist slander that Mr. Phillips was “banging a drum in their faces” as an act of aggression.
I can’t wait to hear noted tribal expert Anna Merlan explain the ceremony and medicine that involves sticking the drum in a random person’s face. She musta learned that at the Columbia School of Journalism!
JHTFC
We live in an intellectual vacuum.
Ok, and it’s not poking someone in the arm with a needle, it’s administering a vaccination, because the two things are completely different and totally unrelated. God, we should’ve taken the warnings off of plastic bags years ago.
Sigh. Columbia doesn’t teach tribal traditions.
Merlan learned it from Liz Warren. Duh!
You know I don’t give a shit about the use of drums as medicine and ceremony. You know why? Because I’m not an
IndianNative American.I bet you go around flaunting your smallpox vaccination scar on your shoulder.
I am a native american. Born and raised right here in the good ‘ol USA. However, I am not an Indian.
You’re a great American, SB
I am every bit as Indian as noted squaw Lizzie Warren.
Pass the peace pipe there Fauxahantes!
How about War drums, ya fucking cunt!
Some people could stand to learn about the use of bleeding as medicine in many European traditions and stop repeating the racist slander that I “punched someone in the nose” as an act of aggression.
+1 Balancing the Humors.
Sounds like the market for faith healers is opening up again.
Good for him. There’s hope for the kid yet.
I logged in over there for the first time in over a year to give him props. But I am not wading into the cesspool that is the comments over there. Thank you Swissy and SP for keeping the vileness away.
Man, Tony is down the rabbit hole. You’d think he’d sit out story once in awhile. Take the hit, chump, don’t lean into it.
At this point I assume “Tony” is someone’s idea of performance art.
Somebody going by Tulpa accused someone of responding to themselves with another account.
Strange times.
The presumption by almost everyone, including Robby, is that Phillips is an honest actor. I doubt it.
If you were to present me with a guy who has spent decades protesting and seeking media attention, my first reaction would be to distrust every damn word that comes out of his mouth.
But once again, we have a minority that is given the benefit of the doubt simply because of his position on the progressive stack. Regardless of anything else we know or don’t know about him, he is to be believed because of that one characteristic.
He was not. He dd an interview on NPR yesterday and it is clear he had an agenda. He said explicitly he stepped up to the Covington kids because he was ‘trying to protect the Black Isrealites’.
A group of black racists, because how virulent must your racism be for the SPLC to consider a black group racists?, were harassing some 14 and 15 year old kids, and Phillips decided he’d confront the kids? He wanted to insert himself into the story and he knew if he stepped to the Black Isrealites they’d have cracked his old fucking skull for him.
Evidence suggests he’s already lied about serving in Vietnam. I’m waiting for someone to file a FOIA request to see if he ever served in the military at all.
He also has a documented history of being an activist rabble rouser.
This Ain’t Hell has filed the request. We shall see. He’s almost definitely a liar regarding Nam given his age – he’s 64 now which means would have been 18 in 1972. The last Marines in Vietnam left in 1971. He’s claimed service from 1972-76. He also said he was a “recon ranger”, which my fellow Glib jarheads will recognize as a phony, made-up term. Ain’t no such thing.
I m suspecting his code name was “Agent Orange” and all that stuff has to remain hush-hush so he can’t talk about it…
Um, there is the Recon ranger cadence but that is all I can think of.
Anyone who actually was into that shit was Marine Recon.
“recon ranger” Yep, dude’s a fake.
Fake as hell. He could have claimed he was an adviser or embassy Marine after ’72 but didn’t. And that Recon Ranger shit is from the running song in Full Metal Jacket.
Here’s a real running song.
I wanna be an NG warrior
I wanna live a life of ease
I wanna be an NG warrior
Get me out of the Army, please.
(Sound off…)
A buddy got NJP for modifying this one while we ran past a group of Naval Officers:
Hey Hey Navy
Get on your
boats and follow meknees and swallow meI am Marine Corps Infantry
You will be shocked to find out that Tony is capable of ignoring clear video evidence that destroys the original narrative.
Tony|1.22.19 @ 11:34AM|#
The “black guys” are irrelevant to the story in the news. The kids, kids as they may be, swarmed the Indian guy and started mocking him in a racist way. …
Tony|1.22.19 @ 11:47AM|#
I watched the videos. Did you?
I swear that cannot be a real person. I know I am as subject to preconceived notions and bias as anyone, but I can acknowledge that so as to try to avoid it so I can acknowledge and utilize new evidence. Good lord…
Tony’s real. He’s just a troll.
Or he watched the 20 second clips provided by the MSM and considers that “watching the videos” because there’s just no way that eminently trustworthy CNN would deceptively edit the footage.
Unfortunately, he’s real. And he really is that stupid and mendacious.
Somedays, I was convinced he was a real employee of Reason, there to stir up shit.
In a few years we’ll come to understand that we’d been living through a moral panic. God forbid it takes a few years longer than that, but inevitably, we’ll realize what a ridiculous farce this has been, ginned up by activists and race baiters and willing media dupes. Because this happy horseshit isn’t sustainable, not without murders.
Don’t underestimate the evil of the left when they gain full control of the government monopoly on force.
Is that what the Chinese said after the Cultural Revolution? Or the Russians in 1925?
I hope you are right and everything works out for my son and eventually my grandkids – but I’m not optimistic.
Or when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
Let’s also not forget that the main purpose of mainstream journalism right now is to get clicks. And you don’t get clicks by sober and honest reporting. You get them by stoking outrage.
OT: Now this is how real journalists can get even with the people that out them as lying shills for the dnc and its vile marxist agenda..
I sure hope that when we start breaking things apart we all agree to hang all of these journalists.
why wait?
It occurs to me that journalism without editors is like developers without QA. Occasionally, a decent product gets made, but usually, it only works if you think exactly like a developer. Mostly you get buggy drek that has been tested only so far as that the compiler throws no warnings.
It compiled so it must work! /developer mantra at the last place I worked at in support
It compiled on MY machine, so why is it breaking on the CI machine, huh?
Obligatory
I wrote code for real time simulators for 7 years. No QA involved.
The code worked, because no one wants to get phone calls at 2 in the morning telling you that formal testing is halted because you fucked up.
Web developer for about 7 years now; can confirm that being responsible for maintaining the things you create is an important element in code quality. In fact, I’d go further and say that one of the leading causes of stuff we make going sideways is that it starts at the design phase with too much input from stakeholders who decide what they want by committee, without considering what tasks they’ll actually perform or what they’d need to perform them, mostly on the basis of things they’ve heard from young people or stuff that looks neat.
My code is fine, it’s not my fault the users are idiots.
That is all irrelevent.
Who is footing the bill, and what are their actual interests in this code?
A bunch of lawyers, so as long as my code is technically correct I’m golden.
You must know those rare reasonable lawyers. Those lawyers I know do not extend common courtesey nor legal thinging to things they pay for and are rather entitled.
*Note – I don’t actually know the Glib lawyers, having met zero of them.
It helps that I’m employed directly by the firm, so they’re far less antagonistic than they otherwise would be.
I have doubts that anyone in journalism these days has the aptitude or the mindset to actually serve as an editor for the line monkeys.
Idea 7: non-geographic states. I, robc, can choose to join the political entity (or none) of my choice (that will have me) and all of my land would be part of that entity.
What!! That would never work! (Except for trade unions, Wikipedia, various Scouting organizations, church organizations, and libraries, just off the top of my head, that all provide governance services in a non-geographical structure.)
Adding to your list: HOAs, Medi-Share.
Fraternal organizations, hobby associations.
Except of course, none of those take the place of geographically-based states. They are in addition to, not instead of.
And none have the authority to use force on others.
That sounds like a list of things I’d never want to join…
Mostly because the control freaks end up bubbling to the top.
Except, how would two people with incompatible sets of laws interact? If a People’s Red Star Republican has a legally guaranteed right to be unassaulted by hate speech, and his neighbor has joined the Dadaist Anti-Collective, does the PRSR request that his country’s Ministry of Peace and Equality lob a few motrat shells at that really tacky mural that the DAC guy painted on his wall?
Not to speak for robc here, but based on the concept that the land would be part of the entity, it would need to be ruled based on where the offense happened. Of course, I think that also follows that there would be no public land, and all land would be a part of one political entity or the other, Which could make travel between locations a bit difficult.
It seems like that presupposes some sort of super-entity would be required that would need to recognize the various polities. Because if someone joined a collective that rejected the idea of private property outright, you’d immediately create an amoeba swallowing up the ministates contained within it.
Then there’s the whole “If my neighbors decide to fence in that asshole that lives next to us so completely that he can’t leave, that’s our right” issue.
There’s a book called the Machinery of Freedom that explains this.
but the short answer is to just look at how prison gangs work. Prison gang wars are actually very rare. When a flunky in Gang A offends or attacks a flunky in Gang B, Gang B Flunky isn’t expected to retaliate directly, and its Gang B (not Gang A) that enforces this. Instead, Gang B Flunky brings his grievance to the leadership of Gang B.
Gang B’s leadership then goes for a sit down with Gang A’s leadership. They explain that their Flunky has a legitimate beef with Gang A flunky. Because they are humans operating with human understandings of justice, Gang A knows that they have now inherited the risk of unrest and it is encumbrance on them to placate Gang A and Gang A Flunky.
At this point, Gang A is given the option – Impose a punishment on their own flunky, or risk a tit-for-tat escalation. In some cases, this is a restitution offer (e.g., monetary payment and/or a public and humiliating apology) or violence on Gang A Flunky (carried out by Gang A, by Gang B Flunky with Gang A’s permission, or by a neutral third party). In addition, Gang A Flunky risks getting excluded from the protection of Gang A in the future for being a fuck head that’s more trouble than he’s worth.
So in your example, you need to go back in time. Assuming he PRSR is large enough to matter, they will develop a reputation about being prickly about hate speech. the DAD member will know that if they offend a PRSR member with hate speech, they risk the tit-for-tat escalation, and importantly the DAD organization will work to control the DAD member so that the DAD’s entire organization is not subject to the tit-for-tat escalation.
Because as we all know, when to flunkys of an organization start squabbling, its non long before the escalation starts targeting otherwise-uninvited members of the organization (IE you killed my uncle, now I’m going to kill your cousin.)
How does that not result in a state-size race of alliance/absorptions to drop the number of entities to two? I can see in prison gangs that racism prevents consolidation. But even there, there aren’t a hojillion different gangs.
As I understand it, there are a few large gangs, and many small gangs that form allegiances with the big ones. Its very much like feudal Europe or Japan. But I’m not expert.
Anyway, to your question: What would prevent these gangs / mutual-aid societies / security insurance agencies (as the book calls them, IIRC) from consolidating? No idea. The book puts forward a few ideas that I don’t find particularly persuasive. This is a utopian idea that follows the standard utopian form -> There’s this one small scale social dynamic here, lets radically alter society so that this is the only the social dynamic everywhere.
I don’t think it would be stable. All feudal states consolidated into Westphalian states, after all. But on the other hand, feudal states *were* stable for a very long time (and my personal bias is that stable social arrangements emerge as a function of the technological corpus of a society, that is Ancient Egypt looked the way it did because it was efficient with their technology, feudal Europe looked the way it did because it was efficient with its technology. The Roman Republic fell because of a change in logistic technology. The friction in the current US is a function of a government designed for Revolution era communication technology but existing in a very, very different communication technology corpus.)
Well, the problem Westphalia solved (envision me furiously air-quoting all of that) was the idea that one state (or political unit of whatever kind) could have legitimate interests within the internal affairs of another state that would justify military intervention. The Thirty Years’ War started off as your standard rebellion based on religion (and culture, and politics, as these things typically go) but became a nightmarish s-show when neighboring states started to justify their intervention in support of one or the other side as justified by religious allegiance. The point of the Peace of Westphalia was that the nation-state as defined by territory was entirely sovereign within its borders, and that it existed on a level beyond even its own government, such that while a king might owe his religious allegiance to Rome, he didn’t have the power to commit his country or even himself in the office of king to anything other than his own nation’s interests.
And, of course, that concept went out the window. Think about the state of the world today. Yes, the unit of discussion in international relations is the nation-state. But the EU flies right in the face of Westphalian sovereignty. So does the UN. So does the idea of “humanitarian intervention”. The Westphalian system took hold because Europe was worn out after years of religious wars and wanted to establish some mechanism to prevent them in the future. That instinct wore down over time, and then two world wars pushed it in the opposite direction.
In my opinion, there was nothing inevitable about the nation-state, nor is it so special as to represent a final stop in world politics. But, it will take some sort of major revolution, likely war or at least endemic violence, to change it.
But on the other hand, feudal states *were* stable for a very long time
But the most stable feudal states had something in common to bind them together, a higher authority to which they could appeal to help settle disputes – be it priest or king. And, in fact, the jails have a higher authority as well, to keep things from getting too out of hand. I don’t think either of these support the idea that dispersed and highly non-contiguous states would would be a stable situation.
Any way you slice it, somebody’s getting their ox gored.
And by ox, I mean anus.
Re: city-states:
I’ve been reading SPQR, by Mary Beard, which is a history of ancient Rome from the initial founding of the city to I believe the reign of Claudius, and one thing that gets pointed out is that Rome the city-state started to become Rome the empire when they started allowing people outside of the city to become citizens of Rome as well as their city of residence. A state as such didn’t exist in the way we’d think of it today, but what started to happen was the idea of citizenship became something that existed on multiple levels. In other words, you could be a citizen of town A and also a citizen of town B, because the residence aspect of citizenship became separate from the obligations and entitlements of citizenship. Of course, eventually, this resolves itself in the concept of the nation-state, but there’s no reason it had to, and there’s no reason we can’t go back to something like that if the will exists to do so.
Hmmm…this relates to my idea above too. I was thinking about you could be member of multiple entities for different purposes. I might join in with my physical neighbors for purpose of maintaining infrastructure like streets (like an HOA) but join other entities for other purposes.
Speaking of Rome, does anyone have an opinion of Colleen McCullough? I was given a copy of The Grass Crown by someone who thinks I’ll like it, but I’d never heard of her or the series.
Colleen McCullough was an Australian treasure.
The series is great. It’s the closest you’ll come in historical fiction to an actual history book. It also means, while McCullough uses the primary historical documents where she can she basically takes Julius Caesar’s accounts as true and I think she had a bit of a crush on him across history.
Would not.
The more decentralized, the better. If that means splitting up states, creating city-states or some other way of spreading power out, I’m all for it.
Unfortunately, that’s the exact opposite way of where we’re going now.
I don’t see how splitting up states helps any if the Fed is still growing.
It would work if ostensibly small-government reps really were interested in small government. Splitting Kali into 4 states means (probably) at least 4 if not 6 new conservative senators. Similar things would happen in Illinois and NY. Of course, again, that’s all predicated on Pachyderms (or whatever replaced them) actually holding true to their stated goals and promises (not a slam dunk by any means).
Sure if federalism actually still existed. Unfortunately the current trend line indicates we’re headed in a direction where the fedgov controls every single local function even down to zoning. Splitting up states would only have an impact if local control were still a possibility in America.
Exactly. I want 7.7 billion* little nations-state running around negotiating with each other as equals.
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population
WAR!
WAR!
War! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01-2pNCZiNk
The People’s Republic of Scruffy Nerfherder endorses this idea.
When’s the first UN meeting for all representatives?
Turtle Bay is going to need more parking spaces.
Does this mean we all get Sovereign Immunity?
THUNDERDOME!
Two Nations enter, one Nation leaves!
Does this job come with healthcare & dental?
STEVE SMITH DRIVE BIG WIENER INTO HIKERS, PONDS, TREES, WHATEVER MOVES. OR DOESN’T.
I’d say you were an idiot but this plan makes all the people moving to Texas from California illegal aliens unless they’ve gone through the proper vetting.
OT: even an ex-cop woman is not exempt from the demands of the mob: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-01-22/battered-wife-fish-chip-shop-owner-says-forced-to-sell/10737816
Wrong-think will not be tolerated.
So I guess Penn Jillette’s joke about Tempura House – A shelter for lightly battered women, is right out?
I wonder why people feel sorry for Maduro. If anything, people should feel sorry for the victims of this marxist shit. Of course that would hurt our proggie movement.
Didn’t know you could that even if you tried.
And, of course, that number’s irrelevant. At some point you don’t have inflation, you just cease to have a functioning money.
Hmm, currency not money.
This is the money quote:
The wrong man died.
And Chavez was absolutely a thug.
It’s almost as if the problem according to the peddlers of this vile ideology is who is in charge and not the deficient and evil philosophy that expects people to be serfs to the oligarchy running the state.
Basically came here to say the same thing. They think Maduro meant well but was the wrong top man.
But Lenin was also a genuinely inspirational and charismatic leader, who was “elected” freely and fairly again and again. Stalin, on the other hand, is an unsophisticated thug who will never have a political ideology named after him as Lenin did…
Ok – Stalinism is or more like was a thing.
It was “THE” thing about communism. Lenin and his revolution killed a few millions. Form the numerous sources I have read on the subject Stalin’s work resulted in anywhere from 30 to 66 million of his countrymen being murdered over not just his tenure, but long after he was gone in all the camp systems he set up. Stalin is the guy with the big body count in the USSR, and the left is still hard at work trying to rehabilitate him. The only person that killed more of his own people than Stalin was Mao whom they claim butchered over 100 million. Now Pol Pot is my favorite bloody marxist murderer however, because as a percentage of population, that guy holds the record. In a country of 6 million he killed some 2 million. That’s some efficiency, I tell you.
The problem with marxism, or fascism -the other collectivist ideology – is NOT who is in charge: it is that as ideologies go, it can only exist as long as those that don’t want to be part of it are brutally dispensed with as a means to encourage the others.
It never occurs to these half-wits that the fact that one particular flavor of socialism is named after a single person is a real problem. What happens when Mr. IknowitwhenIseeit dies? We have to roll the dice once every generation?
Mr Maduro has not had that kind of wealth at his disposal.
Huh, wonder why that was?
Chavez stole most of what was available while the marxist cronyism resulted in a massive degradation and destruction of Venezuela’s main source of income: the oil industry. Maduro inherited a country far poorer than the once Chavez took for a ride down the commie crusade highway, which also was in horrible shape because of the unavoidable collapse that the marxist actions created, and had far less to steal (not that this prevented him from stealing some serious money). Whomever follows Maduro will inherit a country that is amongst those in the worst possible shape on the planet.
elected freely and fairly again and again.
Sure…
They won the election with 97.7% of the vote in their favor! Totes legit man…
“socialism that works”
It worked so well that it fell completely apart after one person died? This just shows how stupid socialists are. Even taking what they say at face value, socialism has proven to be a complete failure.
Illinois can have Milwaukee. Once that happens Madison will hopefully clear up.
They can also have Lake County, Indiana. In fact, the rest of the state might pay them to take it.
Illinois: “OK, but you guys have to take Chicago.”
How does the US Handle Citizens of states that Secede? Certainly some would want to still be citiziens of the US? Do they have to leave because a Majority of people decided to secede? How is SS handled?
I’m not against secession, but these are certainly questions that will come up, and probably be used to keep states from leaving.
True, it would be far simpler to just adhere to the Constitution as written …
Simpler, but demonstrably impossible.
But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain – that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it.
Mr. Spooner is not wrong.
Ol’ Lysander’s birthday was the 19th (last Satdee). I missed it. I’ll pour out a few ounces tonight in his honor.
SS does not depend on US residency. You can have your checks mailed to your overseas villa if you wish.
Yes, people would need to move to the country they believed would be most in line with how they want to live (this is also why we’d let border counties peel off and remain with the Untied States.) And then after the prescribed tie period, people could them migrate again, based on the results of the experiment.
Um, I think you misunderstood. He wasn’t talking about social security.
When he asked about SS, I’m pretty sure he wanted to know what would happen to the MAGA hat wearing storm troopers.
There was a documentary that outlined that.
Having a hard time finding data on This case. Any more legally-versed glibs know if a positive ruling will do anything for more upstate residents?
You are talking about NY. They will arrest you and throw you in jail to make their point and not bother to care as their violation takes another 20 or so years to make it to the SCOTUS.
It’s not clear in that article if they’re suing the city or the state.
But hey, it’s about time either way.
https://www.scotusblog.com/2019/01/justices-to-review-new-york-gun-rights-case/
Scotusblog is your go-to place for up-to-the minute scotus news. They are also pretty accurate in their reporting. Much more so than any partisan outlet I know of.
The Supreme Court’s calendar for April was already full before last week’s conference, so the new grant likely won’t be argued until the fall. The justices’ eventual ruling in the case could stick to the relatively narrow question of whether the city’s law is constitutional, or it might shed light on a broader and more consequential question: whether the right to have a gun extends outside the home. Either way, the court’s opinion in the case probably won’t come until the spring of 2020.
justice delayed..
it might shed light on a broader and more consequential question: whether the right to have a gun extends outside the home
If only the 2A protected the right to bear arms as well as keep arms.
From what I’ve read, the significance is that it will expand the core of 2A that’s subject to strict scrutiny and all the courts using rational basis and intermediate scrutiny to shoot down 2A rights can now go fuck themselves.
I’ve linked this before, but it’s on topic, and may help people who are only used to the Republican areas of states wanting to break away.
It’s really impressive that they can blame the Republicans for all of Cleveland’s problems with a straight face.
There is no corruption in Cleveland or Cuyahoga county. There has never been corruption in these fine outstanding locations.
But mainly I like the idea of the population centers having to deal with the agricultural people as equals rather than simply imposing their desires on them from mere dint of numbers.
“Wait- food comes from WHERE?”
God, we should’ve taken the warnings off of plastic bags years ago.
We won the War Against Running With Scissors, and this is what it got us.
Fighting Darwinism and the concept of the selection of the fittest was a big mistake for humanity…. Some people simply will do nothing but drag humanity down…
Idiocracy is real.
I think the people that made that movie were progs making fun of non-prog people, but the fact that it is happening for real because of proggie shit is ironic to the point of being prophetic when you consider the left is always about projection…
Leonidas agrees.
homeschool rules
I need to start working on the Salsa school’s high school credit breakdown. Gonna need it in a few years.
How much credit should I give for making your own siege weapons?
Depends on rate of fire?
4 credits for taking and 80% receiver to 100%
None, unless the student successfully takes a called city and sacks it.
https://5newsonline.com/2019/01/16/officers-find-stolen-atv-gun-meth-and-dead-bald-eagle-in-mcdonald-county-drug-busts/
The vald eagle is the real problem here.
Was this methhead doing nasty things to the bald eagle’s corpse?
dead bald eagle without the proper paperwork…
That dude is going to “pound me in the ass prison” for that.
He better join a gang or kick someone’s ass real bad on the first day, or he is gonna end up man handled…
holy shiet, I just noticed the mugshot and the wall they have him lined up on.
That’s the best the local PD can do? My wife can make up a need ruler looking chart to measure their height.
his neighbor has joined the Dadaist Anti-Collective
Where do i sign?
The problem with splitting things up is that without the check that non-proggie America provides the proggie areas would turn into third world hell-holes in short order. Then the residents would flee to….you guessed it….non-proggie areas that would probably be prospering. By any other name prog cities would still have shit on the sidewalks. The only advantage would be that the urban areas would no longer have say over how rural America lives. I dont think they would find that tolerable so they wont go for the deal in the first place. Even if they did we would still have the locust problem. How do you deal with that? Yes you can emigrate here but former residents of progtopia can never vote here?
The residents of the new countries would set their own immigration/refugee policies.
Yes you can emigrate here but former residents of progtopia can never vote here?
As a practical matter, that’s been a problem with migration within the U.S. since the SCOTUS ruled that you couldn’t delay voting on migration.
Build walls. Big ones, and moats filled with sharks, with fricken’ lasers on their heads….
I like this idea best. It also seems to be the most workable.
Walls. That’s what walls are for.
It’s true, the urban states behind the walls will only survive if they accept free commerce from the non-urban states.
“The problem with splitting things up is that without the check that non-proggie America provides the proggie areas would turn into third world hell-holes in short order”
It would take a while for the hellholes to emerge. Look at places like Detroit or Hawaii — no matter how fucked up it gets, most people stay put.
“The other point of difference is, the greater number of citizens and extent of territory which may be brought within the compass of republican than of democratic government; and it is this circumstance principally which renders factious combinations less to be dreaded in the former than in the latter. The smaller the society, the fewer probably will be the distinct parties and interests composing it; the fewer the distinct parties and interests, the more frequently will a majority be found of the same party; and the smaller the number of individuals composing a majority, and the smaller the compass within which they are placed, the more easily will they concert and execute their plans of oppression. Extend the sphere, and you take in a greater variety of parties and interests; you make it less probable that a majority of the whole will have a common motive to invade the rights of other citizens; or if such a common motive exists, it will be more difficult for all who feel it to discover their own strength, and to act in unison with each other. Besides other impediments, it may be remarked that, where there is a consciousness of unjust or dishonorable purposes, communication is always checked by distrust in proportion to the number whose concurrence is necessary.
Hence, it clearly appears, that the same advantage which a republic has over a democracy, in controlling the effects of faction, is enjoyed by a large over a small republic”
Madison, Federalist #10
Madison’s optimism about large republics does not seem to be borne out. But, I’m not sure he’s wrong about the problems of small democracies/republics.
The advantage the smaller republics have is the ease of exit. I’m not oppressed by Amazon because I don’t have to use their services. But Madison is right that it’s easier for these smaller political units to be homogeneous and oppressive. See HOA’s.
When the Fedgov eventually bankrupts itself, which will happen, my hope is that the U.S. stays together but that we return to a strong doctrine of federalism. 50 states that are largely autonomous yet share a common defense, and little else.
Strong federalism I think is the least violent and disruptive way to solve political differences.
I agree with your prescription, but everyone on the Left despises federalism and continually find ways to destroy it. Most GOP “conservatives” are perfectly willing to go along with them.
Lighten up Francis.
A cautionary tale for our Glibs who get into dioramas, models and dolls.
I’m not telling you guys to not get upset about your wife fucking around with your important hobby. That’s fine (how else will she learn?). No, I’m telling you not to copy this idiot and call the police on yourself. Don’t care how much you’ve been drinking:
And why take it out on the car, TV and laptop? He should have smashed some of her jewelry or whatever else she likes.
You haven’t ever met a married woman, have you? That *is* the stuff she cares about.
A new bride and groom excitedly head into the honeymoon suite following their wedding. The bride immediately starts passionately kissing her new husband and wriggling out of her dress. The husband angrily pushes her away and says “What are you doing? I don’t sleep with married women!”
I think this reporter doesn’t understand what is going on here. When people in WI call the police, they start by saying they’ve been drinking too much because that’s how everyone in WI starts every phone conversation.
Here’, just remember this simple list and you’ll have phone etiquette down:
Japan: Moshi moshi.
Texas: Howdy.
Not Texas, not WI: Hello.
WI: I just want you to know that I’ve been drinking a lot.
This kind of shit isn’t about the action figures. It’s about years of poor communications and bad relationships full of and tit-for-tat conflicts. The action figures were the excuse.
^^^This man has been married a long time^^^
That women still gets pissed that he has things that make him happy and was trying to ruin that for em…
Did she use up all the glue on purpose?
Or… He had a hobby he was spending time and money on (instead of spending time and money or her), so she “accidentally” messed it up. A similar move or shit test is when the wife takes her husband’s beloved muscle-car out for a spin and wrecks it. Oops.
^^THIS^^
so she “accidentally” messed it up.
Like knocking over and breaking his major award while watering the plants.
Is it the wife’s fault that the award was fragile?
She knew it was Italian!
and using up the all the glue ON PURPOSE
NADAFINGA!
Doh! I should have kept reading. I blame society!
A guy I knew in high school had a modified ’78 Firebird with a built ‘n’ bored ‘n’ stroked 455. Back in the 80s, mind you, it could do high 12s in the quarter mile. It was a car that he was rightly proud of and one that he had built with his dad.
His girlfriend borrowed the car to “run an errand”. And when she came back, the valvetrain was all messed up. Something along the lines of: “I don’t know what happened, it started making funny noises.” Assumption was she was doing high RPMs on purpose to damage the engine. Who really knows, it could have been a mechanical failure that just happened by coincidence when she drove the car.
My buddy’s dad had a ’61 Ferrari in a glass garage. After skipping school with my gf and buddy and running around town all day, we tried to rewind the odometer but the car got kicked off a jack stand and wrecked.
True story.
Dude, your girlfriend is HAWT.
Well, to be fair, it could be that he’s dropping bills on action figures while she’s discovering that their checking account is overdrawn again while trying to buy groceries. My aunt’s first husband put them in debt to their eyeballs because he’d buy a new set of clubs every few months. That type of shit burns extra bad if you’ve got two people contributing to a joint account and one sees the whole balance as his or hers.
I know which ax he didn’t use.
I hope they weren’t in their original packaging, that would be a travesty.
Was it established the wife did, in fact, damage his action figures? Did she do it on purpose? Was she dusting them and accidentally dropped it? Or did he, in his drunkenness, break it himself and blame it on the wife?
He sounds like a peach to live with. That is probably not the first time he’s done violent things in that house.
Violence doesn’t happen in a vacuum. He probably was violent in the past.
Note, he was not violent towards her, just to property.
While it could be a one-side, abusive relationship many broken relationship involve bad actions from both parties.
I volunteered at a battered women’s shelter for a time. It’s always her fault, according to her abuser. If she wouldn’t [insert sin here], he wouldn’t have to hit her. See what she made him do?
I’m not saying that’s the case here, but assuming she really did do something to his shit when the article clearly states he only thought and ascribing her worst-case-scenario evil intentions is some Olympic-style leap-frogging.
He didn’t hit her.
No one can read that article and deduce what is going on in their relationship.
Battered women exist. Battered men exist. Broken relationships exist in all sorts of forms.
No, I know he didn’t hit her. That time.
In short, I object to the default presumption that the wife did something vindictive on purpose and for all sorts of nefarious reasons, so I did a little presuming of my own.
My wife volunteered for an organization that helps pregnant teens. Roughly half of them were impregnated by much older boyfriends most of whom disappeared and roughly the other half of them were impregnated by their fathers.
It’s difficult to maintain a positive attitude about men in general when you see the consequences of some bad men.
It becomes a constant struggle to not assume things.
Well, I’ve worked with women almost half my working life and let me tell you: I know firsthand how vicious women can be and how sneakily (passive aggressively) they can do it and how little it takes for them to decide you are the enemy. Poking, prodding, sly little jabs, carrying tales. It adds up.
Poison is a woman’s weapon, after all.
Which gets back to my original post.
This wasn’t about action figures; it was about the history between them.
I was in a lengthy relationship where a relatively frequent move was my girlfriend yelling at me and then physically putting herself between me and the door when I’d get up to leave, refusing to move, pushing me when I tried to move past her, and then very loudly yelling, “Get your hands off me, you psycho!” when I tried to pull her out of the door way so that I could get away. There are abused women, for sure, and there are guys who think it’s alright to beat the hell out of women, which is shameful. But, there are also women who know that the burden of proof in abuse tends to favor them, and know that most men will be scared shitless of being branded an abuser while also knowing that those same men will either never think to or be embarrassed to report suffering from abuse themselves.
We broke up. Nobody pressed charges on anyone.
I understand and I don’t doubt you at all. I agree with kinnath that there are lots of noxious chemicals in that brew. Me, I look at the article and go, “Wow, what a doofus, destroying your own shit like that.” Not, “Wow, the wife pushed him to it.”
This sounds like an ideal situation to deploy a body-cam every time there’s that type of interaction going on.
Mind you, if the relationship’s deteriorated so much that you need the body-cam, it’s time to call it a day. No matter how great the sex is, it ain’t worth it.
So do you shave with Gillette or not? Can’t tell from the story.
Now I want a gyro.
You need a gyro.
LOL
I’ll ask my hero to get me a gyro on his way home from work.
those same men will either never think to or be embarrassed to report suffering from abuse themselves
*nods in agreement*
I’ve told this story here before, but I had a college girlfriend who would get abusive when drunk. Her main goal was to draw blood, and she succeeded more than once.
Honestly, I would sit there just flummoxed. I was never in danger, and I physically ended the situation whenever she tried to get weapons involved (usually keys on a lanyard), but mostly I just sat there thinking “I don’t like this, but what am i gonna do, hit her back?” Reporting her or otherwise subjecting her to legal consequences seemed like waaaaaay overkill, even though I was having to wear long sleeved shirts to work/school to cover up the scratches.
Older, more confident me wants to go back and tell younger, insecure me that there are plenty of other fish in the sea and you don’t have to put up with that bullshit just because she’s cute and interested in you.
That’s what video recordings are for.
People suck in general.
Don’t get close to them, they will fuck you up.
For Nephlium, beer in India: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p06yj7pt
(about 20 minutes in)
Can’t really watch/listen now, as I’m at work. But appreciate the thought. You would think with the number of Indians I work with who keep going back to visit their homeland, some of them would bring me back beer to try. Ok, I know the Muslim ones wouldn’t. But come on!
Although I was part of a beer exchange where someone brought in Hue beer (brewed on the fragrant Perfume River). The beer was so bad it wouldn’t even attract fruit flies.
It would be ironic if they hate pale ales.
https://instantrimshot.com/index.php?sound=rimshot&play=true
Madison’s optimism about large republics does not seem to be borne out. But, I’m not sure he’s wrong about the problems of small democracies/republics.
Madison was also operating on the assumption that people recognize the the immutability of the Iron Law- Me today, you tomorrow.
Sober self-reflection is not highly regarded, these days. Infantile tantrums too frequently pass for debate.
OT: The Beautiful Ones.
https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/society/article/2182776/single-minded-forget-marriage-south-koreans-arent-even-dating
First the hikikomoris in Japan and now Korea. What are they putting in the water over there?
Soy.
*Throws out soy sauce*
Maybe we could create an app to hook the two groups up?
-1 comfort women
I willing to help any (well not just any) Asian women who needs some pointers on the whole sex thing. Y’know, social work.
Protesting outside of churches to own the cons.
I’m gonna go out on a limb and say that it’s pretty vile to protest outside of houses of worship.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=244622006433127&id=95475020353&fs=0&focus_composer=0
There was a long time law in Chicago that banned people from protesting outside of someone’s residence or in front of houses of worship. Both laws were pushed by Old Man Daley, because radicals would protest outside of his bungalow or try to catch him going to daily mass.
It was a stupid law that was eventually struck down by the courts in the 90’s, but it’s still a good rule of thumb that if you find yourself protesting outside of a church you’ve probably already lost the debate.
That requires a level of self-awareness and intellectual honesty not found in progville.
Intellectual honesty that our own shitbag “journalists” lack. I seriously hope a severe lawsuit comes of this.
Even the immortals in Highlander wouldn’t desecrate Holy Ground. And yes you’re right. It is pretty low.
Even Barksdale drew the line at shooting Omar during the Sunday truce.
No word on these folks’ opinion on protesting outside mosques against Islamic extremism I suppose…
https://twitter.com/radleybalko/status/1087756288111587335
Shitbag Balko doubles down. How can this guy speak with so much progressive cock in his mouth?
Where da adults at.
The douchebag downstream:
I’m doing it just for clicks….
Balko is a creature of DC now. It would be unacceptable for him to do otherwise.
He’s a fucking asshole who occasionally does good work (or used to anyway).
The march of the Cat Ladies.
I rest confident in my assumption that 99% of those people are assholes.
Depends on what the worshippers have been up to. I wouldn’t have any beef with someone protesting outside Phelps’ church if they had shit on his kid’s funeral.
If the congregation has been up to shenanigans trying to fuck with other peoples’ lives, then have at them. If they are just doing their church thing, yeah, it is a dick move.
Churches aren’t any more special than an Elk’s lodge.
Dog bites man.
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/facebook-doesnt-really-believe-in-free-speech-what-they-believe-in-and-actively-practice-is-censorship
TW: Autoplay.
Hold up. Are you telling me that Facebook enforces rules unevenly based on the biases of its employees?! GTFO!
The Covington kids are going to meet with that idiot Phillips.
Their parents need to pull them out of that school NOW
That’s a stupid, stupid thing to do. Phillips is in this game for himself. Nothing good can come of it.
This. It’s going to end in a SJW lecture and a victory for the Indian.
The correct answer is to Indian give the invitation.
The school is bending over and throwing the kids under the bus. The Catholic church needs to be torn to the ground.
Catholic Church leadership keeps making the same mistake as Republicans. They want so bad for the left to like and accept them. They will apologize and grovel and give in, not realizing that none of that will help. They will always be considered “the enemy”.
Bingo. Catholic leadership has been aligned with the Democrats for so long, they can’t come to grips with the fact they have been unpersoned.
It’s an almost criminally stupid thing to do.
They should ask him about how his experiences in Vietnam influenced the man he became today.
Hold on there a minute. You can’t take back your invitation after you gave it to Phillips. That would be injun giving.
Im pretty steamed about it.
They’re not even pretending to protect their students. Right now, Phillips is getting prepped by high-level SJW activists, and the diocese is prepping the kids to get raped in public.
I’m so glad that isn’t me. Idiot 18 year-old me would have thought it a blast to show up wearing a replica 7th Cavalry uniform and demanding that Philips apologize for the sin of killing Custer.
Maybe though, the shit storm these kids have already weathered have make them twice shy about doing anything fun and stupid like that.
*cough*
yeah, yeah, yeah.
You got me. I owe you some wampum.
You better not take it back!
I saw an interview with Chief Drums Like Asshole where he was blatantly lying about multiple aspects of the encounter. The guy is a first rate scumbag publicity whore who is getting exactly what he wants with this.
When do we start playing Risk?
And be ruled by the Australians?
Meh, as long as we don’t run out of beer, we can’t be arsed trying to rule anyone.
I like Aussie rules.
Wait, what?
I say just do a RedBlexit. Every four years at the general election, each county votes on whether they’re to be governed by Team Red or Team Blue or Team Purple or Team (insert color). You go in a county, you abide by the laws for that team. All the roads and airports leading into a transition zone between colors are marked so you know what laws you’re temporarily under. If you don’t like it, not that far to move or even just drive to occasionally.
Based on this map linked to above, vast swaths of the country would be default Red, with Blue bastions in the cities, so you wouldn’t need to change the signs all that often:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3f/United_States_presidential_election_results_by_county%2C_2016.svg
Precedent exists.
Ok. Country mouse, city mouse bullshit is so fucking tedious.
And yet not untrue.
So why has urbanization not delivered the libertarian moment?