Guns for The Country Home
Some time back I stumbled across an interesting discussion on the appropriate firearm for the farm or country home, much like the country home my folks maintained for many decades.
The Old Man was, of course, a farmer for much of his life, and an old school country gentleman. His attitude towards firearms reflected most of his type and his generation; firearms were tools essential to the maintenance and protection of homestead and crops, in the same order as a chainsaw, a scythe, or a tractor. They were selected and maintained as such, with strictly utilitarian considerations. Childhood in the Great Depression and young adulthood during WW2 made most of the Old Man’s generation practically minded people.
That being the case, the Old Man maintained three firearms on and about the place. They were a 12-gauge pump shotgun, a .22 rimfire rifle, and a .22 handgun. The shotgun was his first purchase with his demobilization pay when he returned from the Army in 1946, the .22 rifle was a third anniversary present from my mother in 1950, and the .22 pistol he bought for recreational shooting sometime in the mid-1960s. I still have all three firearms, and no amount of money could persuade me to part with them, so don’t ask. And, in what should come as a surprise to no one, these are the three types of guns I think are most useful around your typical country home.
If You Can Have Only One Gun
Now, on to the country home: If a family can only maintain one firearm on a country homestead, one would be wise to pick up something along the lines of the Old Man’s first post-war purchase, a simple 12-gauge pump-action shotgun. The Old Man’s Stevens pump-gun hasn’t been manufactured for many years, although used examples are sometimes available at bargain prices. The old Stevens 520/620 series are great guns, John Browning designed take-down pump guns with solid steel receivers. They’re reliable and brutally tough, and if you can find them around, come pretty cheap.
The Mossberg 500 series or the Remington 870 are likewise solid guns that will give long service; my own pair of Mossbergs, a 12 and a 20, have been functioning flawlessly in the game fields for 35 and 40 years now. There are plenty of others on the market, but were I equipping an outpost myself, I’d probably go for a Mossberg or a Remington, for the primary reason that parts will be easy to find.
The advantages of the 12 gauge are many. Ammo is readily available anywhere and various loads/shot sizes can handle anything from garden pests to turkeys, while a slug will dispatch a deer or even a bear. Pump guns are solid, reliable and easy to operate. Most hold five or six rounds in the magazine, which should be enough ammo for most chores.
I’m a big fan of old shotguns, particularly the pre-64 Winchester Model 12 and the Belgian Browning Auto-5s. I have a fair stable of those pieces and over time will probably buy more. But these are collector’s pieces, and while I shoot them and hunt with them, I would not necessarily drag them through mud and bad weather. For that, a rougher piece is in order – a utility shotgun, suitable for the only gun on a country homestead.
Even though I will always love my old Brownings and Winchesters, I will always keep the old Mossbergs around as utility shotguns, especially after our move north. Of course, my attitudes towards firearms are somewhat different than the Old Man’s, and so the Mossbergs will still have plenty of company in the rack.
I’ve seen some great shooting done with simple 12-gauge pumps, too. Despite his utilitarian attitude towards shotguns, the Old Man was nevertheless as artist with his old Stevens. He was known to go 100 straight on the skeet range in his Army days, and he was highly skilled at making a shot charge arrive in the same location as a fleeing pheasant or grouse. In his early 80s he cut off the tip of his trigger finger in a jointer, and since that time firing a gun with any recoil caused a stab of pain through his shooting hand, but before moving to town he capped his hunting career in a blaze of glory by stalking and killing four wild turkeys with a bolt-action .410, causing our old friend Dave to comment, “if anyone but your Dad told me that, I’d call him a damned liar.” I was always disappointed by my failure to catch up to Dad on the trap range, although he would have admitted I was better than he with a rifle.
Which brings us to…
If You Can Have Only Two Guns
But let’s say you can have two guns around your place. I’d recommend the second be a .22 rifle.
Oddly enough, while my gun rack contains several .22LR semi-autos, if you were to keep a .22 rifle in a rural setting, I’d recommend a bolt gun. Why? Several reasons:
- Bolt guns are simple, they generally break down easily and are easy to clean and repair.
- Even in a .22LR, bolt guns are accurate. Not that semi-autos can’t be accurate – but bolt guns are generally a hair ahead.
- Simplicity leads to reliability. Fewer moving parts means less wear, although any well-maintained firearm should last a lifetime.
- Some semi-autos, like my own slicked-up Ruger 10/22, can be finicky about ammo. Bolt guns generally digest any ammo with aplomb, and generally give you the option to run quiet .22 Shorts if you are shooting at close quarters. A subsonic .22 Short round fired from a rifle isn’t much louder than a finger-snap, and that can come in downright handy.
The other advantage to a .22LR bolt gun is price. There are literally millions of inexpensive and yet reliable and accurate .22 bolt guns around. You don’t need high polish or fancy walnut for accuracy in a .22 (although those things sure are nice). Anyone who has handled an old Mossberg or Marlin bolt .22 should be able to attest to that. Back in the day I bought a Mossberg bolt-action .22 with US Government markings for the grand sum of ten dollars, and I could shoot pop-bottle caps off fence posts at 25 yards with it – with iron sights. That Mossberg today would cost you more than that, even adjusted for inflation, but not all that much more. In fact, the same gun without the US Government markings, for some reason, will cost you a lot less.
A lot of the comments above will apply to a lever gun as well, except that .22LR lever guns are generally pricier and more complicated to maintain.
If You Can Have Only Three Guns
For your third gun, I’d recommend a medium-to-major power handgun, one you can carry in a belt holster and shoot accurately. Anything from a 9mm auto to a .44 Magnum will work; it’s far more important that you can handle the sidearm well. Revolvers, though, are generally simpler, easier to maintain and less fussy about ammo than autos. Revolvers also have the capability of handling more powerful loads in a reasonably sized piece. Bear in mind that if you’re in a remote location, you may have to repair the thing yourself. Some of us are better tinkerers than others.
With the above in mind, though, take into consideration any possible uses you might be putting that sidearm to – caliber considerations in Georgia may be quite different than those in Alaska.
Most people find handguns more difficult to handle well than a rifle or shotgun, so be prepared to spend some money on practice ammo.
Parts Is Parts
In a rural home, it’s a good idea to keep some parts on hand. Firing pins, springs, screws and action pins, all good things to keep a supply of. You’ll also need tools, as gunsmithing tools are somewhat specialized; Brownell’s Basic Gunsmith Tool Kit contains a good assortment of tools, gauges and so on to keep your shooting irons shooting. Keep a good supply of cleaning solvents and lubricant on hand.
If your pump shotgun has a barrel that can be swapped out easily, as does the Remington 870 and the Mossberg 500, an extra barrel isn’t a bad idea. And speaking of barrels, while I’m fond of Briley choke tubes and run them on a lot of my shotguns, an ugly but solid Poly-Choke type collet choke may be a better idea for a country-homestead gun; you can lose choke tubes, but that Poly-Choke is there for keeps.
Last-Ditch
If “prepping” is your thing, or you’re just very remote and are worried about supplies being hard to get, here’s something to think about: What would you do if cut off from a supply of ammo?
The answer may be to scale your technology back some – say, to about 1800. A smooth bore flintlock musket is versatile, will kill birds with shot or moose with round balls, and if you have bar lead, a mold, flint and a supply of sulfur you can make everything else you’ll need to keep shooting. Charcoal isn’t hard to come by, and if you have a latrine, you can make saltpeter. You’ll need a fair amount, as the recipe is generally 75% saltpeter, 15% charcoal and 10% sulfur.
That’s something to think about, anyway.
And So…
A country home requires a lot of tools to keep the place maintained, safe and tidy. Even if you’re not a hobby shooter or (like me) a collector, a firearm is one of those essential tools. Whether your immediate need is rabbit stew, pest control, dissuading something big and toothy or something two-legged and belligerent, sometimes a firearm is the only thing that will work.
Comments
236 responses to “Guns For The Country Home”
I have the bolt .22 (Savage) and the musket – a reproduction of a Committee of Safety Brown Bess. My only shotgun is granddad’s single shot .410. I may fix that eventually but my next gun is probably a center-fire bolt rifle.
I have a bolt action .22 (Savage MkII), a bolt 7.62x54R (Mosin), and some unfortunate holes in my collection due to aggressive bodies of water.
I have the habit of taking my entire collection out on extended canoe trips. I just know that one of these days I’m going to have an unfortunate accident.
I thought I was the only one!
Sometimes it happens
It seems that my semi-auto rifles and higher capacity pistol magazines were the most prone to sinking into deep lakes. Single-shot and bolt-action firearms seem to float better so far.
unfortunate holes in my collection due to aggressive bodies of water
This will be a common theme in the Harris/Warren administration.
If I could only have one gun it would be my M1A. Big enough and accurate enough to be used against medium-sized game yet still very manageable. Rugged and dependable, relatively simple action for a semi auto that can be maintained without many special skills. Very effective against two-legged predators as well.
Adding in a second gun would be a pump action shotgun of some variety for birds and small game.
Adding in a third gun would be a .357 revolver.
All IMNSHO.
No argument here regarding the M1A.
The country home one-gun question starts with the buyer really more asking himself
a/ are you buying a gun to hunt with that can serve as protection, or
b/ are you buying a protection gun that might sometimes be used for hunting?
This really moves the needle.
I think Ayoob had an article arguing that the M1A was the best single gun for your backcountry hideaway. Influenced my decision to get one.
M1A is #1 on my want list. Great history, beautiful firearm, and shoots relatively common ammo.
Did you ever finish reading that article I linked you to?
For some reason I never got on the M1A bandwagon. My M1 satisfied my nostalgia for an old school battle rifle.
a .357 revolver
That’s what I’m in the market for. But I can’t justify the expenditure as I never get to shoot the guns I have.
What does that have to do with anything?
What I have is sufficient for self/home defense. And I have plenty of other necessary expenditures to make. For example, student loans are a biotch.
A childhood buddy carried a Stevens M22. It might be useful to someone utterly constrained to the one-gun goal.
I think if I were looking for one of those, I’d go for the 20-gauge version. I just don’t have much faith in the usefulness of the .410 for anything bigger than rats.
No argument here about 20ga; I’d bet the 20ga ammo is just as cheap and much more plentiful.
This article seems a bit insensitive given the recent shootings. I’m going to complain to the payment processors that take your donations. /Culture warrior
Wait, wait… I’m getting donations?
What did you think the salmon was?
The Gnomes accept gold regardless of the source of recipient.
Here at Glibs Central, we are proud of our insensitivity. Fuck off, Slaver!
Let us never forget:
http://www.fuckoffslaver.com
Beat me to it.
Seems like perfect timing to me.
Can only have 3 guns?
*head explodes*
I know.
Can only have 3 guns?
“I don’t want to get killed for lack of shooting back.”
Let’s change this to 3 guns of the same model.
I have 3 Sig P228s and that seems reasonable. I really don’t need a fourth (unless it’s full nickel).
I just bought my third Model 12, so, yeah.
And then there’s those of us in flyover country that have no guns. So is this arms inequality, and should I start a campaign to eliminate it?
Primary Arms is literally giving a rifle away.
https://www.primaryarms.com/blog/Big-Bore-458-SOCOM-Rifle-Giveaway
Some one has to win, why not you?
ugh. The last thing I need is a gun in a caliber I am not already set up for.
https://www.crimsontrace.com/company/promotions/crimson-trace-252525-giveaway/crimson-trace-252525-giveaway-15
For you.
Well I mean, the quickest way to ensure that US citizens are stuck with a scarce supply of low-quality firearms would be to have a government program to ensure equal access. But don’t tell the Left – they’ll start getting ideas.
Word. You should have one ready and available in every room of the house.
I get stuck on counting past 3 so there are lots more choices. I attended a raccoon funeral this morning with a Hi-Standard model GD, working wonders flawlessly for nearly 70 years now.
You pretty much covered the spectrum nicely, Animal. 3 is only a number though. Accidents and boats, whoda thunk?
Always enjoy the articles.
Every time there is a mass shooting I think of the thousands of gun control laws across this great country of ours which don’t work and need to be repealed.
Abstinence, its the only way!
He was known to go 100 straight on the skeet range in his Army days, and he was highly skilled at making a shot charge arrive in the same location as a fleeing pheasant or grouse. In his early 80s he cut off the tip of his trigger finger in a jointer, and since that time firing a gun with any recoil caused a stab of pain through his shooting hand, but before moving to town he capped his hunting career in a blaze of glory by stalking and killing four wild turkeys with a bolt-action .410, causing our old friend Dave to comment, “if anyone but your Dad told me that, I’d call him a damned liar.”
That’s impressive.
Gun Jesus recently reviewed a book on Winchester Model 1895 lever actions. I ordered the book. It arrived today. I flipped through it. It looks impressive.
That is a blaze of glory.
Pater Dean used to take his uncle’s .410 double barrel quail hunting, for the challenge (and allegedly to reduce the occasional buckshot in the bird). He still limited out most days (15 birds).
Varmint reduction is much easier with a bolt action 22-250 or the like, but I’m more comfortable with a short barrel shotgun in bear country.
Random OT question.
What does a multigenerational family trust for preventing tax rape of family businesses look like? Context, I have a fictional family with companies worth a few billion who managed to keep them intact and want to pass it down in the family without other people getting to plunder them.
There’s innumerable tactics for that. We employed just one or two (not billionaires). Trusts and early stock transfers make a huge difference.
What does a multigenerational family trust for preventing tax rape of family businesses look like?
A trust that you donate assets to, with family members as beneficiaries and with trusted retainers as trustees. Think of the trust as a kind of corporation, with the trustees as the board and the beneficiaries as the shareholders, and you won’t be too far off.
The businesses that are owned by the trust can still employ the beneficiaries, giving opportunity for them to “earn” a living. Also, they can draw directly on trust assets for the purposes set forth in the trust documents, as approved by the trustees. Often, I gather, the beneficiaries “borrow” money from the trust (no income tax payable, and may get around restrictions on them receiving trust assets).
There are technicalities involved in getting around the rule against perpetuities, which I am wholly unqualified to address and may or may not be relevant – they could provide a plot device in the right circumstance.
Thanks.
Do like the Kennedy’s and set up a Dynasty Trust Fund.
It helps if the fund is domiciled in a place like Fiji so they don’t have to obey the tax laws they wrote.
https://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individuals/edward-ted-kennedy/
Err…
STEVE SMITH RAPE IN DIFFERENT WAYS!
Steve Smith player of match: https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/18659/report/1152846/day/5/england-vs-australia-1st-test-icc-world-test-championship
If you want tax minimization then it gets domiciled in a no income tax/no estate tax state. If you want tax avoidance then you go off shore. In either scenario, you can expect multiple limited liability companies and possibly other types of trusts to be part of the plan.
And right on schedule:
Tyson apologizes for tweeting facts following a mass shooting.
Well, some facts are racist. Or sexist. Or something. Either way they’re bigoted and problematic.
true but unhelpful – the flip-side of Rather’s fake but true reporting.
Any sort of public discussion about anything is dead. If your words don’t support the approved narrative, you best take them back ASAP or you will feel the wrath of the social media mob, you will be unpersoned, and you will lose your livelihood.
Shame. That was the most intelligent and warranted thing I have heard him say in quite some time.
Did he ever apologize for biting that guy’s ear off?
If your pump shotgun has a barrel that can be swapped out easily, as does the Remington 870 and the Mossberg 500, an extra barrel isn’t a bad idea.
A fully rifled slug barrel would be one option. I have one for my Remington 1100. They are picky about what they shoot, in my experience, but after much experimentation I found some saboted slugs that would print 2 – 3″ groups at 100 yards. I was poking around the gun cabinet the other day and found all the slugs I had bought, and its been so long since I went deer hunting with the shotgun that I can’t remember the ones that worked best
Well, try them and label the boxes with the results you get, so the next time around, you know already.
I’m pretty sure two things count with slugs: sabots are better, and premium ammo is worth it because bargain loads are all over the place in velocity. If memory serves, slug guns are finicky like pistols, so there probably won’t be any shortcuts to your finding something your gun likes.
I’ve got nothing against slugs, but a little math mixed in with the vernacular is important. “Three inch group” means 3.00″ with five rounds to one guy and generally under 3 1/2″ with three rounds to another. The best targets I’ve heard of with practical rounds and practical guns is 2″, so I’m going to believe that 3″ is the best that normal folks can do. Look at your probability charts and you’ll see that doubling your 4-round grouping will pretty much predict 99% of the population; I’m not volunteering to dance around downrange while you sling such loads at me, but do remember that a 6″ pattern is what you need to respect while you’re behind the sights. Good news: a full ounce of lead is hard to recover from wherever you’re hit.
I was so astonished at the grouping I was getting with the Good Slugs I recall doing a full five round set. I was shooting off of a benchrest, also. And was was using a scope.
This was during the pre-deer season gun sighting frenzy in Wisconsin, so there were a ton of other guys at the range, mostly trying to find paper with their shotguns. So, yeah, I was showing off.
For scaled back technology, if you aren’t anticipating a decades-long disruption in supplies, the modern black-powder guns that use a 12 gauge primer might also be an option. Primers are cheap and it would be easy to stockpile a bunch of them. Thompson-Center also makes black power guns with swappable barrels, as well.
Famous scientist Neil deGrasse Tyson apologized Monday morning for an “unhelpful” and “miscalculated” tweet.
——-
Tyson denounced his prior assertions, saying, “My tweet in particular — can be true but unhelpful, especially at a time when many people are either still in shock, or trying to heal — or both.” He continued, “So if you are one of those people, I apologize for not knowing in advance what effect my Tweet could have on you.”
When we say unhelpful, we mean it won’t help move the gun confiscation ball forward.
I own one gun, a New England firearms 1 shot shotgun, I like it. I need a traveling weapon, but the laws…..
My Marlin M60 .22 assault weapon (No longer a joke in WA) has been very reliable with different ammo types. Except for the usual rimfire ammo issues.
If You Can Have Only One Gun
You should acquire the means to have more…
But in all seriousness, I am still trying to round out my collection. I have a pistol, a lever-gun, and a scary black rifle with that thing that goes up. I figure I still need to get a revolver, a shotgun and another 9mm semi that has a larger capacity. Currently I have a 1911 chambered in 9mm*.
*I know. I know…
My next gun that’s not a Soviet-bloc pistol will likely be a 10/22 to replace the one I had as a kid, but following that I really, really want to get a S&W Model 13.
It’s funny, I was thinking about a very similar topic this weekend, viz. what a well-rounded gun cabinet contains and I came to a similar conclusion.
First gun, 12-gauge pump, like an 870. That’s hunting, self-defense, general all-rounder.
Second gun, pistol, either a 9mm or something like a K-frame S&W.
Third gun gets tricky. I think there’s a sound argument for a bolt rifle in .30-06 or something like that, but I lean towards a carbine like an AR-15. There’s also an argument for a Ruger 10/22 or something similar, or a rimfire rifle at any rate.
Of course, the real answer is at least one of each, but we’re assuming space and money are limited.
I really like the 10/22 (don’t own one), but I hear a lot about jamming. The problem with affordable guns and ammo is that every flavor of idiot owns one, so who knows what non-sense is the root cause of the reported jams. My guess is ammo quality because the folks I have any truck with never report any problems with the Ruger semi.
The only time I ever had an issue with it was by proxy. A friend of mine had bought a fifty round drum and around the 20th round or so the heat would become a problem and it would stovepipe. With the standard mags I never had an issue, and that’s with cheap bucket o’ bullets stuff.
Modern 10/22 aren’t anything like the old ones. I have one that was made <5 years ago, and I'm really not in love with it. Jams on anything other than really expensive target ammo, and needs to be cleaned every 100 rounds or so. Its also inaccurate as fuck. I thought I was losing my mojo (I'm a much, much better shot than my level of practice gives me any right to be) until I started using friend's 30 year old 10/22.
I don't hunt, so the only purpose of a 22 for me is to be a cheap and cheerful plinking gun. It utterly fails at that, and I'm going to replace it with a Henry soon.
I haven’t had a stoppage (other than dud rounds) with my new one, but I’ve only put about a thousand rounds through it.
but that Poly-Choke is there for keeps
Because once that corn cob is on the end of the barrel, you won’t even be able to give that gun away.
I didn’t say they weren’t ugly.
I have … nothing
As we’ve been saing, come visit the US. There’ll be more than a few who’ll bring you out to the range to see what you’re missing.
but is it not better not to know?
Well, we’re trying to induce you to immigrate.
So there is that.
neah i’m to old for that. immigration is a young man’s game
Then you’ll have to repeat visits.
The 22LR is an underappareciated country gun. I had a mole decide to surface one day and was crawling around the yard. Didn’t want my dog to tangle with it & the 22LR portion of my M6 Scout did quick work of the bugger.
I learned from my country in-laws that one downside when it comes to varmint hunting with the .22LR, is range. If you’re hunting a large amount of burrowing animals like prairie dogs you’ll want a .22-250 or .223. The prairie dogs wise up to the sound of the .22 at close range and stay in their hole after the first shots.
I had a mole problem once. I saw the dirt mound kind of moving one afternoon. At the time, I had the shotgun and my .45, which seemed like the better tool for the job. One round through the moving dirt, and it stopped moving. Problem solved, didn’t even have to dispose of the corpse.
It’s hard to argue with the ubiquitous .22 for the second gun. Given the cheap widely available ammo, most people could afford to hoard more than than would ever need. I’ll throw this out there though. You can pretty much hunt any game or perform any pest control with a shotgun that you can with a .22 (although not surpressed) especially if you reload. However, a .308 in an AR platform gives you all kinds of utility that your 12 gauge doesn’t. Larger game and long range sniping ability for perimeter defense or whatever. Just throwing that out there.
.308 in AR platform = AR10 ?
Hasn’t M14/M1A won that race already? If not, and if parts interchangeability/availability don’t matter, wouldn’t a G3 copy then be top dog? How does AR10 ever get to the top of this pile?
Sure, if you want to take out parts and accessories interchangeability and availability, and the ability to swap calibers, barrel lengths, and upper configurations at the pull of a pin utilizing the same lowers. Cause that’s not an advantage for a platform at all.
Admittedly, I’m not an AR guy. I get interchangeability, of course; it’s just a bit of getting used to mentally to go from “this is the one gun you need” game we started to “if it’s not really the gun you need, at least you can convert it to something else.”
Maybe I need to think of it more like this: AR15 is a totally handy bush rifle, and, if you like, you can always keep some 308 parts around for special holidays.
Guns designed for utility are not the ones that attracted me to guns in the first place. I much more admire a gourgously carved wood stock on a tightly hand fitted bolt rifle. Give me an engraved old Colt Dragoon over a Glock. That said, utility has its place and I can appreciate that. The AR is the leggo set of rifles and that definitely has its advantages.
yeah: I’m a walnut guy who EDC Glock
Yeah, I think Glocks are ugly. I own 3:)
Minor quibble that .308 AR-platform guns don’t have the same standardization of dimensions that 5.56/.223 have. The two primary (to my knowledge) variants are AR-10 type and DPMS/LR-308 type. I believe the primary difference is the profile of the underside of the upper (which requires a matching lower). I don’t know about the guts, although you see lower-build kits specifically marked for LR-308, so maybe there are some internal differences, as well.
Incidentally, while there are a large range of calibers you can put on an AR15 or AR10 platform, you can typically not mix platforms due to the mag well. You could possibly mix platfirms and load each round by hand but prolly not.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AR_platform_calibers
Even if we were talking M1A, my point is the same. A shotgun will handle anything a .22 will, but a .308 will offer more than a shotgun.
The AR10 was basically redesigned from the ground up in the 90’s based on then-modern AR-15 designs. The prototype that failed the trails in the 50’s is a completely different rifle.
I’m not a fan of direct impingement in general – certainly not in .308. Sig and FN will sell you a piston .308 for a whole lot of money.
Larger game and long range sniping ability for perimeter defense or whatever.
An AR is a good all-around firearm. Something I have considered is having a replica fintlock because you can find flint and you can make black powder and lead rounds. It could be used to put food on your table and allow you to save your modern hardware for defense. And also, flintlocks are fun.
Have you ever made black powder? It’s not as easy as it sounds.
No. But I have also never made an AK47 out of a shovel.
The NYT’s advice column does not disappoint.
Spoiler Alert!: The NYT answer was not helpful.
It’s good to see you teaching your daughter to let herself be bullied by psuedo-moralists
Should have stopped there…
I can’t think of a more destructive message for minorities than “Everything wrong in your life is because of racism. You shouldn’t have to do anything about it; it’s everyone else’s fault. Just sit there and complain and keep voting Democrat until a good life is handed to you with a silver bow on top.”
The poverty pimps need to be thrown out on their ass.
Could you imagine a sportsball coach telling his team this? “Well lads, I’ve some bad news for you. Turns out your WAR is a half a standard deviation lower than the other team. We’ll likely lose tomorrow.
OK, now lets get out there and do our best subject to the constraint that you aren’t as good and will never win and its not your fault and there’s nothing you can do about it.”
“It’s hopless for you until we fundamentaly change the inborn nature of all white people. Until then, just giveup.”
A real recipe for success there.
That’s one of the most evil ideas that you could teach young kids.
I’ll take “Shit That Never Happened” for $500, Alex.
Yeah, I was trying to remember what I was doing when I was 12 and it definitely did not involve any wokeness.
i believe this happened. parents in cults brainwash their kids with all sorts of rubbish.
I don’t believe for a second that the mother or daughter even exist.
For a second, I thought it was Jimbo talking about his kids.
Then I realized that wasn’t the sort of response he’d give.
And you know I had my daughter’s feet bound as an infant so I could marry her off to a wealthy Chinese guy. So she’d never have sticker that said she had “feet in her shoes”.
Tell your daughter to respond with “That’s just what a loser would say.”
people can’t choose what they want to do because of structural racism
This is certainly true for someone somewhere, but it doesn’t mean that everyone suddenly shouldn’t try to
* cure cancer
* reduce pollution
* deliver useful services
* design novel products
* be whatever your heart desires.
Keep the sticker.
this weekend my 7 year old niece told me all taxation is immoral and also will I play hide an seek with her
“That term “structural racism” is what losers tell their children to explain away their poor life choices. They fucked up and they’re the only one who can unfuck their life but they are unmotivated and so they try to make everyone else as miserable as they are. Next time somebody tells you that loser bullshit, you look them straight in the eye and say “go fuck yourself”.”
I’m a victim of structural ancestors-came-over-from-scandihoovia-broke-as-a-joke-and-got-by-sucking-on-rocks-for-years-so-i-grew-up-on-powdered-milk-ism.
If you believe that:
it is difficult to also believe that:
because the one sort of rules out the other. Unless you mean that only certain children have agency whereas the remainder grow up to be racist because the structure of society somehow was created as a fixed thing out of whole cloth, is racist, outside of the interactions of individuals within it and yet directly influences those individuals to the point of removing their freedom to decide how to treat each other. Otherwise, you can either believe that society is an entity that exists separate from its members and is in some fashion both deterministic of and yet created by some of its members, or you can believe that society is a term that simply refers to the patterns of interaction between a given group of people and is meaningless absent the people themselves, who have absolute agency and are free to behave as they see fit.
It’s simple – some people are NPCs and thus immutable once coded.
Other people are AOCs, and apparently unmutable.
“Unteachable” would also be acceptable.
Is it me, or does this all sound like it’s straight from a community college Sociology 101 textbook?
What kills me about it, beyond the fact that it’s racist as hell, is that the adherents clearly don’t believe it. If you’re fucked because society doesn’t like brown people, regardless of whether or not the people in it happen to agree, then why protest? What can you do about it? Why are you bitching at people on the Internet or putting bumper stickers on your car if this monolithic entity is ultimately in control of whether or not racist things happen to you? Otherwise, it’s not society, it’s just some assholes. Well, lady, there’s all kinds of assholes in the world. Blame them, not all of the white people who’ve ever lived.
“I believe structural racism is real and pernicious”
So, you’re an idiot. I can’t fix stupid.
I believe structural racism is real and pernicious,
Well, there’s your problem.
Waitress at the hotel restaurant wearing exercise leggings this morning. Torn between the unprofessionalism and the ogling.
Is the waitress oglable? If not, rage against the unprofessionalism.
I never fault a girl her tips.
If she gets better tips, she’s a pro.
That is what you get for going into a career where ogling is considered unprofessional.
This is one of those things like graffiti, where it’s best to just consider it a crime and leave the really good examples alone for everyone to enjoy. You can’t outright condone it because then people who shouldn’t do it will do it, but you don’t want to throw artists making things of real value in jail.
you don’t want to throw artists making things of real value in jail.
I don’t?
Not continuing with the analogy of an attractive waitress in tacky yet form-fitting trousers walking back and forth across your field of vision, no. I mean, or maybe yes, we’re not supposed to kink shame around here so no judgement.
Sort of On Topic discussion:
I was thinking about the calls for Gun Control and with regards to suicides. I have some very close family who have attempted to end their life, and it’s for this reason chiefly that I don’t keep any weapons at home. It still would not occur to me that this personal decision would be forced on others not in my situation. Further more, if I was worried about someone I care about killing themselves, the last thing I would want to do is pawn them off into the uncaring and murderous hands of law enforcement.
Of course these don’t matter because it is all a pretext for what they want.
This is one of those areas that reminds me that the major parties’ platforms were seemingly drawn out of a hat. There is no consistency. On the one hand, we need to ban guns, part of the reason being we need to prevent suicides. But on the other hand assisted suicides and euthanasia are ok.
Suicides and death by shooting are irrelevent to the policy-pushers. It’s perfectly self-consistant when you regard these as camoflage pasted over the real objectives.
Well laws aren’t where that sort of thing should be handled. Laws attempting to keep guns out of the hands of people who might kill themselves are as effective as laws against suicide. It’s the sort of thing where people in the person’s life, be they family, friends, or just people in the community, are best positioned to do what they can to limit that person’s access and/or do what they can to help them deal with the emotions driving them towards suicide.
But as you say, this is about something else. There are people of a certain persuasion who have and will never spend ten minutes doing volunteer work but will stand around in the street demanding that the rich be taxed in order to help the poor.
“We have decided to end this scourge of self-harm once and for all. Effective immediately, we have outlawed suicide. Anyone who dare kill themselves will be locked up until they rot.”
So, Churchill-branded shotguns with 12″ barrels (they’re actually classed as “unrestricted” in Canada! — who knew?) are a thing in these parts; they’re usually a 4+1 design and can take up to 3″ shells. Calgary Shooting Centre’s selling one for $249.00 CDN:
https://store.theshootingcentre.com/churchill-tactical-12ga-12-shotgun
And Cabela’s has one, same brand, with a pistol grip for $349.00 CDN:
https://www.cabelas.ca/product/107492/churchill-12-gauge-pump-action-shotgun
Anyone have any knowledge/uninformed opinions on either of these?
My experience – pistol grips on a shotgun do not make for comfortable shooting. Too much recoil. The worse are the ones with a pistol grip and no shoulder stock. I have no idea about the quality of Churchill.
So, you better hit with that first shot?
agreed
I have a pistol grip on my 18-inch-barreled 870 and never had any problems with recoil when I shoot buckshot out of it.
Of course, I’m 6’3″, built like Shrek, and may or may not be the brute squad, so YMMV.
We’re similar meat loads, and I’m a recoil junky in a certain way, but there’s still a qualitative way I relate to Suthen’s critique. I projected onto his reply that recoil management is just so bizarre on a pistol-grip shotgun: what goes where? With a stock, shooting from the hip is completely comfy, the stock naturally syncs with your side, and the recoil reconciles into two simple components: a/backwards, which is a non-issue, and b/rotational, which, as when shooting any other gun, is what you manage.
To the extent that the stock can be behind you when walking through doors, I’ve never seen the pistol grip per se as an advantage. Maybe it’s the thing for jumping out of cop cars with or some other reason?
Also, I probably suffer from neutrality nerves. I don’t like shooting a Luger, for example: the grip doesn’t tell me where the gun wants to go; it feels like it could spin and shoot back over my left shoulder of its own volition. I like pointy guns, my SW686 being the best example: put that post on something, squeeze, and problem goes away; that barrel stays where you want it. It’s fair to say the SW686 doesn’t swing around as easily as my G30, but it’s still ten times more rotatable than my pump 12.
Interesting. Thanks, everybody.
OT: Donald Trump voices support for white supremacy!
https://pjmedia.com/trending/donald-trump-condemns-white-supremacy-in-wake-of-el-paso-shooting/
JK, that’s only what progs will hear.
They only hear the voices in their heads.
But he’s secretly in favor of it.
I was gonna sardonically joke “I don’t have any guns” .. and then thought how depressing it is for that to make sense as a joke, in this country.
Failure to
leaddo what we sayPresident Trump forcefully denounced white supremacy in the wake of twin mass shootings over the weekend, citing the threat of “racist hate” while offering no sign of concern that his own anti-immigrant rhetoric may have played a role in one of the killing sprees.
“In one voice our nation must condemn racism, bigotry and white supremacy,” Mr. Trump said at the White House. “These sinister ideologies must be defeated.”
But Mr. Trump stopped well short of endorsing the kind of broad gun control measures that activists and Democrats have sought for years, instead falling back on longtime Republican remedies, such as stronger action to address mental illness, violence in the media and violent video games.
He warned of “the perils of the internet and social media,” but offered no acknowledgment of his own use of those platforms to promote his brand of divisive politics.
—–
Gun control groups reacted sharply to Mr. Trump’s address.
“Let’s be clear: This is not about mental health, it’s not about video games, it’s not about movies. Those are all N.R.A. talking points. This is about easy access to guns,” said John Feinblatt, president of Everytown for Gun Safety, a gun control group.
Guns are bad. We must do away with them. We will wave our magic wand and turn them into adorable cuddly puppies and kitties.
JFC.
The “Trump made me do it” defense might actually hold up in court.
That’s what they wanted… Of course they don’t expect it, it’s an ultimatum, the request is supposed to be so outrageous that no one would accept. It gives them leeway to then do what they want.
“In one voice our nation must condemn racism, bigotry and white supremacy,” Mr. Trump said at the White House. “These sinister ideologies must be defeated.”
That’s mighty white of him.
YOU’RE GONNA DIE… MAYBE… SOME DAY….
LOL
From the sidebar: “Shane, quit offering extended warranties on the fried chicken.”
Looking at it, I think it was a running joke rather than actual notices to an employee.
Shh. I like the world in my head where it’s true much better.
Some of the Democrats campaigning for the party’s nomination to run for president condemned Mr. Trump for not calling the El Paso attack a white supremacist act of domestic terrorism. Some Democrats blame the White House for what they suggested was a tolerance for white nationalist groups, something that was not common among Mr. Trump’s recent predecessors.
In another Twitter post on Monday, the president railed against the news media, blaming it for the contributing to “the anger and rage” in the United States.
That’s just crazy talk. Without evidence. Next, he’ll be saying he’s not a racist. Everybody knows what a racist he is. They read it every day in the New York Times.
I have currently a Marlin 60 .22LR, a Remington 870 12 gauge, and a little .38 as a bedside gun. What I’d like to add to that is a full size rifle and a decently powerful pistol. I’ve liked the few rounds I’ve shot with an AR chambered for 6.5mm Grendel but that shit ain’t cheap. For the pistol, I had an EAA that was a CZ75 clone and liked it, but sold it a while back. I’m open to new options.
BTW, here’s a lovely quote from Kamala the Cop:
California Democratic Sen. Kamala Harris gave details about her gun control proposals in the wake of the deadly El Paso, Texas shooting after she addressed union members at the AFSCME forum at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas on Saturday.
When asked by the Washington Examiner if her plan would include legal gun owner databases or gun confiscation via law enforcement visits to residents who own banned firearms, she replied, “I’m actually prepared to take executive action to put in place rules that improve this situation.”
She continued, “I also have as part of my background and experience working on this issue, when I was attorney general [of California], and we put resources into allowing law enforcement to actually knock on the doors of people who were on two lists — a list where they had been found by a court to be a danger to themselves and others.
What’s that? Sending police around to knock on the doors of people on lists, Kamala? Where have I heard that before…
She is a thoroughly evil person. She would set the whole country on fire.
I would hope that there are at least a few progs out there that see how dangerous a precedent that would set.
And next time an anti-abortion president is in office, we’ll have an executive order to go knock on doors of women who had abortions…
It will be fine as long as no one like Donald Trump is elected president, which will never happen because that would be absurd.
I would hope that there are at least a few progs out there that see how dangerous a precedent that would set.
Spoiler warning: if they could see beyond 1st-order consequences, they would be libertarians already.
“I’m actually prepared to take executive action to put in place rules that improve this situation.”
“I am intent on violating every provision of the Constitution that I can.”
The “red flag” laws came up today in casual conversation about the shootings (our idiot governor is pushing them again, despite getting his ass handed to him by the legislature last time).
I work with Polite Society, so of course the tone was these these were a good idea. Because I’m not a fool, I didn’t ask “When the doorkickers come to confiscate someone’s guns and take them in for an evaluation, how many people getting killed is too many? Because people are going to die.”
An oldie but a goodie.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/516382177798680576
Ladies and gentlemen, I present the future president of the United States.
No SKS love in the thread so far, eh?
They’re a solid cheap option, but there are some really beat-up one floating around out there. Definitely a buyer-beware situation.
Pay the extra $200 bucks and get an AK.
Plus they’re notorious for firing when chambering a round (has to do with the design of the firing pin). They’re fine rifles if you can get a good one but be especially careful.
They’re a solid cheap option
Definitely a good zombie-apocalypse scenario option.
My dad has one. I shot it once. It is a nice rifle.
I’ve got a Norinco that my dad had. It’s a sturdy gun, shoots decently. 7.62×39 is stupid cheap and it’ll shoot garbage without too much complaint, so it’s a handy gun to have. I know they get a lot of love in the prepper community for that reason.
Note, Juarez has about twice the population of El Paso. But all those are cartel deaths, and not from ‘Mass shootings’.
Those were mass beheadings, they don’t count.
Not gun violence, therefore irrelevant.
IOW, Americans and their drug habits are responsible. We really are the worst.
Juárez Registers 889 Homicides So Far in 2019
So they are catching up to Chicago…
Chicago has 166% the population of Juarez.*
*I don’t have the most recent homicide numbers for chicago at hand.
293 as of 7/27.
It’s ok, twas only a joke.
It’s almost triple Chicago, and Chicago is bigger. Crazy.
But, muh open borders!!!!
Liberal Realizes He’s Wrong on Gun Control @ Dem Debates
No no no. Republican talking point. Mexico has very strict gun laws.
Trump Responds To El Paso and Dayton Shootings (REACTION)
From what I heard, he’s channeling Tipper Gore.
He’s channeling the NRA who has been throwing out the video games and entertainment canard for years.
Grand Theft Auto V causes mass shootings.
Also: The Dayton shooter was a leftist? Wow, haven’t seen *any* coverage of that.
I though they both were. Assuming the accuracy of what I have read about the El Paso shooter, the only “right-wing” position he held was on immigration, with his position being along the lines of the way leftist portray anyone to the right of Karla Marx, not the actual right-wing position on immigration.
Funny how all of the coverage is about El Paso and very little of it is about Dayton. Wonder why that might be?
See my comment directly above.
That time when Joe Biden took the correct position on the relationship between the Federal government and the States.
When asked by the Washington Examiner if her plan would include legal gun owner databases or gun confiscation via law enforcement visits to residents who own banned firearms, she replied, “I’m actually prepared to take executive action to put in place rules that improve this situation.”
The Constitution is just a fucking piece of paper.
And it ain’t a suicide compact. Bring on the pen-and-phone.
When asked by the Washington Examiner if her plan would include legal gun owner databases
Gun owner databases are not legal, thank you very much.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/trump-wants-social-media-companies-to-detect-mass-shooters/ar-AAFni6H?li=BBnbfcL
President Donald Trump directed the Department of Justice to work with local, state and federal agencies to work harder to find potential attackers. During a speech Monday at the White House, Trump said the internet acts as a “dangerous avenue to radicalized, disturbed minds.” . . . “The perils of the internet and social media cannot be ignored and will not be ignored,” he said.
Why didn’t Kamala think of this ?
I’ve been assured that Trump is really good on guns, way better than Tulsi, despite doing more for gun control than Obama.
I’d say Trump’s better or at least his rhetoric is:
https://www.votetulsi.com/node/25028
Meh. The last time he said something that made Dianne Feinstein wet I made an impulse purchase. I do not feel inclined to now.
Was that in the 70’s?
Of course there’s no telling what a President Gabbard would do based on the Congress at the time, but the specific positions she advocates in regard to guns are more restrictive and less Constitutional than what Trump has actually signed into being. I shudder to think what a President Clinton would be pushing right now.
Gabbard is a pretty standard-issue lefty on most domestic policies, so my working assumption is that, like most lefties, her ultimate goal is confiscation. But, as a pragmatic politician, she is willing to take what she can get while on the road to her ultimate goal.
A good article from the Mises Institute via ZeroHedge on how low the violent crime rate really is right now:
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-08-05/media-focus-mass-shootings-shows-disconnect-actual-crime-trends
Perception doesn’t always equal reality it seems.
And the 2018 projections are putting it back down near record lows.
But if we could just save one life!!!
I guess not even Zero Hedge could find anything to blame the Jews for in a declining crime rate.
ROFL!
Lately you have to click a button to see the comments on Zero Hedge. That greatly improved the website. Their articles never blamed the Jews.
Perception doesn’t always equal reality it seems.
It’s not like the Washington Post is going to publish a multi-part series on all the things which are statistically more likely to kill you than a random crazy person with a gun. Like driving to Walmart in your car.
The whole thing is whack. Even if I’m really in favor of gun control, I’m picking handguns to focus on. The thing responsible for nearly all murders.
It’s so driven by sensationalized media and makes no sense whatsoever.
+1 Saturday Night Special
What gets me is it takes all of ten minutes for a person with an average IQ to read an article and dispel all of the panicked bullshit surrounding this issue. The mass denial of reality doesn’t give me much hope for the future.
None of it has anything to do with protecting people or with reducing violence. Not a lick. The gun grabbers ban and restrict what they think they can get past the normies thanks to media bias and propaganda. It’s all loaded language and marketing, really. That’s why there’s a ban on “high capacity” magazines in some states which happens to include the standard magazines that ship with most full or compact 9mm handguns. That’s why they’ve got a hard-on for AR-15s, because they can sell them as “military-style assault weapons” despite being essentially the same thing as a Mini-14. It’s just constantly raising the temperature of the water, that’s all.
It’s the Rahm Emmanual, “Never let a crisis go to waste” play. Mass shootings of innocent people will produce an emotional response. There’s no way of getting around that. But you could either slow down and try to think logically, or you could fan that emotion and use it to get what you’ve wanted all along.
Sorry to go OT, but there’s stupid, and then there’s this level of weapons grade stupid over at TOS. I’d say it was just Shrieka being Shrieka, but someone over there decided to run that steaming pile of crap.
Gah! Linked my comment. Here: https://reason.com/2019/08/05/tulsi-gabbard-is-anti-war-but-not-pro-peace
Dalmia sucks and she sucks bad. Just because it’s written doesn’t mean it should be published.
Not giving them page views. Ima guess that, because Gabbard is a Hindu of some kind, this ties back to Shikha’s obsession with that Indian Prime Minister somehow.
That seems to be the reason. Dalmia has such a hard-on for Modi that would cause her to ally with Stalin if it hurt her Indian nemesis.
OMG, really? I was just trying to think of the stupidest possible reason to be skeptical about Gabbard’s foreign policy views.
I see they’re still repeating their articles there. Same one was up a few days ago.
I was thinking of getting my concealed carry certification, but right now I’m more into completing my SCUBA certification.
In the meantime, if I encounter any bad guys I’ll just strap on like 15 pounds of equipment and jump in the nearest body of water.
Use a spear gatt.
peaceable swim ?
your lake is a natural extension of your castle ?
STAND UP TO RAYSIZM
https://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/crime/article233512672.html
It’s not as if >99% of the population already believes that racism is wrong.
Also: Fuck off slaver.
And when I say “believes racism is wrong” I mean “believes racism is wrong, in spite of supporting racist policies”. If we include those who support racist policy we’d have large swaths of the population.
Stand up to racism – End affirmative action Now!